Speaker 1: 0:00

Today's interview for Justice, then Justice Now. I think everybody will find interesting and informative. I'm honored to have on this today Marielle Colon-Piro. Marielle is an attorney out of New York. She is you're going to be quite fascinated with her career. She is also a professional singer and she'll talk about that.

Speaker 1: 0:28

And, more important, she's a FOT, and that means a friend of Toby and that's probably the most important thing, she is very familiar with the work that I've done and I'm very familiar with the work that she's done and I'll just say that and I have ultimate respect for her in the legal profession and in the entertainment industry. So I will turn this over to her and we'll start our informative discussion. How are you, mariel? How are you feeling?

Speaker 2: 1:09

Hi Toby, Thank you very much for that introduction. I'm feeling well. How about you? How are you doing?

Speaker 1: 1:16

Good, I'm okay. I'm a little tired. I had the flight from hell yesterday coming up. I sat on the tarmac for two and a half hours because we had rainstorms in orlando miami or miami miami so, and of course, was loaded with disney people coming from latin america. Kids, when are we going? To get there when are we going to see mickey? You know all around me, so you know it was oh, wow that sounds like a nightmare.

Speaker 1: 1:44

Yeah, but but it worked out okay and and that, and I'm, uh, like I said, really honored to have you on the show, because it's going to be informative Um thank you very much for the invitation Of course, of course.

Speaker 1: 2:02

Uh, mariel, what I have everybody do is do a self-introduction, and it's usually with your background, your professional career, something with the criminal justice system, about that, that you like and dislike, and uh, you know. And also I'd like to top talk about your entertainment. Go ahead, I'm sure you have a lot to say on that topic.

Speaker 2: 2:32

I rather not. So. Good morning everybody, or should I say good afternoon. My name is Mariel Colomero. I am a New York-based criminal defense attorney. I also am a professional singer as well, and one thing I dislike one of the many things I guess I dislike about the criminal justice system is how I guess it's not necessarily the criminal justice system, but more so the issue there is with lay people not understanding the law and then serving in a jury panel and how that could affect a client. Certainly clients like mine, where they're accused of a crime and because there's other people sitting down who don't understand the law, may get unfairly judged or treated because of it, because the lack of knowledge, the lack of understanding, because people really don't understand our justice system. So I feel like one thing I don't like is the fact that our society does not understand what a presumption of innocence is.

Speaker 1: 4:01

Well, why don't you give us a little of your background so people can really know who you are, where you came from? I mean, I know obviously, but Right, right.

Speaker 2: 4:11

So, like I said, I am a New York-based criminal defense attorney. I've been practicing law for six years now, but most of you know me or the people that do know me know me because of my first big case, which happened to be also my first case in my career, which was El Chapo. I represented Joaquin Guzman Loera El Chapo in a federal case against him at the EDNY, eastern District of New York, back since 2018. And I'm still his attorney and we you know we we've been together since 2018. We did the trial together. Appeals went, try to go all the way to Supreme Court. Supreme Court did not want to listen to the case. But, yeah, most people know me the most because of that case and also because the Jeffrey Epstein case, whom I also represented for about a month. And I guess the third case that put me in the spotlight was El Chapo's wife's case, emma Cornell. So those are the three cases that I'm most famous for.

Speaker 1: 5:24

Yes, and I think that's got our audience's attention with that. And I do realize, and I need to inform everybody, that you will talk as much as you can about the individuals in the cases, but, as someone who is in the criminal justice system for almost 50 years now, we respect the attorney-client privilege and there's things that you cannot talk about because of the relationship that you have with the clients involved.

Speaker 1: 5:57

So, with that, how did you get started in the legal profession when you were young and you're still very young, trust me but how did you? What made you want to be a lawyer?

Speaker 2: 6:12

So I always wanted to be a singer and I tell people that I am a singer who became a lawyer, not the opposite way, Although I started, you know, the legal career before the singing career. But so I've always wanted to be a singer because I like performing. I still do, it was my first passion. But my family wanted a more, I guess, a different kind of career for me with, I guess, with more, with a financial stability, and I decided to go to law school. Right, I went to. I did my undergrad in Loyola University in New Orleans in music business, and then I said, Okay, let me go to law school, because then I can do entertainment law, and you know that is related to the entertainment industry, which is what I want, to what I want to do, what a? But still there's some financial stability as a lawyer.

Speaker 2: 7:06

So I went to law school, but the first year, right off the bat, I knew I did not want to be doing a nine to five writing contract for other people. I knew that was boring and that's what an entertainment lawyer does, and I just did not want to do that for myself. And so I went and participated in the criminal justice clinic at my law school in New York. I did that clinic and that's where I realized that's right. Then and there I realized that that's really what I wanted to do.

Speaker 2: 7:35

I wanted to do criminal work. I wanted to do criminal defense work. So very early on, since the very first year of being in law school, I realized that that's what I what I wanted to do. I guess part of it it's because, as a criminal defense attorney, you have to perform right. You have to sell a story, just like the prosecutors are doing right. They have their version, their side of their story, and we have our side of the story and you have an audience which is the judge and a jury, and you actually, you know, have to sell this story. And I thought that that was fascinating to me.

Speaker 2: 8:12

And that was the first thing that really like caught my attention about this work. And also then, as I got, as I got more involved with it and I was able to go to my visit, visit my first jail and interact with my first clients right as a as an intern, I realized that I also liked something about representing the underdog right or the accused criminal defense side of the law, and I stuck with it. I finished. I did a lot of internships at various public defender offices, such as Legal Aid Society, the Queens Defenders, many other you know different public defender offices within the state of New York, which is where I was. I was going to law school and after I graduated, I sat for the bar. I was waiting to result and so I decided to go on Craigslist and I go on Craigslist to and many other websites indeed Craigslist, many other websites trying to find a job, because now you know, I was waiting for the bar results. I no longer had student loans, my parents were no longer helping me, so I needed to find a job and I found on Craigslist an ad that said that they were looking for a Spanish speaker paralegal for a criminal defense law firm and I was like perfect. That's me. You know there are not many jobs for that. For criminal defense firms there's mostly. There's more like job opportunities for, like, family law or civil law, but very few for criminal defense. So I applied right then and there, immediately. That's the. It was very general. It did not have any descriptions of what I was going to be doing or anything. It was just that Spanish speaker paralegal for a criminal defense law firm, part time. That's it. I applied. I remember they. I applied, I send my email. They didn't call me right then and there. And so I kept on sending the email for about a week every day, to make sure that my email was at the top of the list. My email was at the top of the list. They finally saw my email. They called me. They told me to go to a meeting. I went to a meeting and then they sat down with me and explained. So we're a criminal defense law firm.

Speaker 2: 10:34

Right now we have a client who is incarcerated in a federal institution in New York. He's awaiting trial. The reason why we need a Spanish speaker paralegal is because the client does not speak English. All he needs he obviously he has a constitutional right to review all the evidence. But because he can't read English, we need somebody that can translate it for him and also explain it for him, and somebody that's willing to go to federal jail for this, you know, three times a week.

Speaker 2: 11:04

And I said, ok, sounds easy, perfect, when do I start? When they, when I asked that, they say, well, you know the client is, we want to make sure that you're aware that the client is, is this, this person? And obviously, right then and there I was like I really I kind of knew the name, but right then and there I like my brain did not click, like who it was. So I was like, yeah, sure, is that supposed to mean anything? And I Googled him and once I saw, like who it was, I was like, oh yes, definitely I want this job. Because immediately I saw it as a very big professional opportunity for me. Because immediately I saw it as a very big professional opportunity for me. You know most all of my, all my colleagues, they spend 20, 30 years practicing law to get a case like this right. So me being able to, even as a paralegal, being involved in a case like this, meant that that was going to be professionally amazing for me and I was going to gain a lot of experience. So it was like a, like a no brainer for me and I accepted the job.

Speaker 2: 12:13

I remember I had a. I had to pass a like a background check and many different you know security protocols, because he's a Sam's inmate, which which meant you know a whole different set of rules apply to him that don't apply to a regular general population inmate. So you know, we did all of that and once I was approved I started visiting him and after that I kind of like you know, we kind of he got very used to my style. He liked you know how I worked with him. A few months after I finally got the results back from the bar, I had passed it, and so he then hired me to stay on the case as his attorney, and so I, instead of being a paralegal then I became one of his attorneys. So it was a legal team, but I was one of the attorneys on the legal team, a legal team, but I was one of the attorneys on the legal team.

Speaker 1: 13:08

Marielle, you're very modest and you know you've told us this mystery guy who you represented on your first case as a paralegal and now as his attorney. Tell the audience who it is.

Speaker 2: 13:20

El Chapo Guzman, joaquin El Chapo Guzman.

Speaker 1: 13:25

What do you think the odds of that happening were? I mean, you must have been overwhelmed.

Speaker 2: 13:31

Yes, I see it still to this day. I'll always see it as a blessing, professionally. I mean, this is the case you want to be If you're a criminal defense attorney and this is what you do. This is a case that you literally worked your entire life to get, to get right a case like this, and it was my first case. So to me, I could not believe it. I saw it as literally, as a professional blessing, like there's just no other way to describe it. Maybe some people would say a blessing. You know that because they don't understand it. When you're a criminal defense attorney and this is what you do do, this is. This is the type of case that you prepare yourself for to get in the future at some point in your life yes and uh.

Speaker 1: 14:12

Yeah, what was your? What was your the etiquette for your first meeting with him? I mean, how, how was that arranged? You just showed up at the jail and you had all your clearances yeah, yeah.

Speaker 2: 14:24

So so I I already had all my clearances and the attorney that hired me she was supposed to go with me to, you know, make the introduction. However she I'll never. I, I still have my doubts about this story, but on the day of as I was already there, it was like 20, we were supposed to meet at five. So she calls me at like 4 40. She says are you there? Because I'm not going to be able to make it, because I just I just left my wallet in the subway and all my ids, including my bar card, where am I in my wallet? So I cannot go in.

Speaker 2: 14:57

So you have two options you can either wait two weeks while I get all my ids and can get back to the you know go back inside to the facility, or you can just go in by yourself because you back to the you know go back inside to the facility. Or you can just go in by yourself because you have the clearances. You can't go by yourself. I was like, listen, I'm not going to wait another month, I've already waited. I need to start working, and also I wanted to meet this guy. So I was like I'm going to go, I'm going to go in, and so I went and it was my first time going to a federal institution so like, so secured right by myself.

Speaker 2: 15:29

So obviously, yeah, where was this mcc? At the? At the mcc new york, which is now closed. Yes, yes, so you know, and I went all the way to the shoe to the 10th floor, 10 south, which is like there's only four cells were because that mcc closed down but there were only four cells on that floor and he was. He was because and they were all four cells for four different sam's inmates, so meaning inmates that had sam's uh on them, right, the special administrative measure, and he was one of them. So there were only four inmates there. He was one of them and so I would go to the 10th floor and I would meet with him and uh, that was the first time.

Speaker 2: 16:08

So, obviously, and it was like from zero to a hundred, right on my first, I guess, on my first visit to that institution. So, uh, it was crazy, it was wild. I felt anxious in the beginning because I was locked in a room for like it must have been like 30 minutes, but to me it felt like two hours, while they would come and get him. Um, literally, I was like, oh, my god, I'm never getting out of here. You know it was, it was, it was anxiety, like full-on blast. But after that I I got used to it, I guess, and I started going three days a week to see him for three hours, but then it became seven days a week. So I was there every single day, including Saturdays and Sundays, prepping for trial and obviously interacting with the client. So he obviously got to trust me and then when I became an attorney, he hired me.

Speaker 1: 17:00

What was his reaction? What was his reaction? I mean most defendants, like at his level, which are high profile, they're going to, they're going to expect somebody coming in my age, you know with whitish gray hair, coming in to see him, and you showed up and it's like what was his reaction I could imagine, I guess?

Speaker 2: 17:25

well, I guess because they were looking for paralegal. Paralegals are young, so I think that he already knew that it was going to be a young person, maybe fresh out of law school or fresh out of a paralegal course, or you know somebody. There's not and at least in my experience there's not many older paralegals. I'd say they're fairly young, you know, in their mid-20s to early 40s at least my experience right, the ones that I've met. So I think that he knew that it was going to be somebody young. Maybe, you know, a law student or something like that, I don't. I mean, we just started talking, started talking like he really didn't have a reaction. He just wanted to get to know who I was, obviously who it was, who I was, who he was going to be working with and same with me. Um, I was obviously curious about many things, um and so, but obviously some of them I kept to myself until later on. Uh, some others, you know, I felt like I could ask and it was it. Just it was.

Speaker 2: 18:25

It was very much a relationship like a, like a professional relationship, but like you also have to establish some rapport, it's impossible not to when you're spending hours a day, seven days a week, with a person, obviously. So you talk about, about everything, not just work. Um, you know life, trips, anything, politics, everything. I wanted to also understand his brain a little bit. Um, music, and I think he did too. He did so too, uh, so that's that's how it was, at least for me I.

Speaker 2: 19:00

I learned a lot also along the way, um, because in a case like this, you learn a lot, and there's things that you'll never learn in law school that a high profile case like this will teach you. First of all, in law school, they don't teach you how to deal with the press. They don't teach you how to deal with somebody that already has a reputation, a negative reputation, and how do you represent somebody that's already stained Right? That's already stained right. Nobody, everybody knew. I mean, there was not a single person in the jury and the people that we actually, you know, like interviewed for potential jurors, that didn't know who he was or that had seen the Netflix show. So it's hard to defend somebody like that in a case like that, because he's already there's already a public opinion forum and he's already condemned by the press, I guess.

Speaker 2: 19:47

So that's something that you live, you learn. Also, the public eye is always on you, so you have to behave different. There's certain things that you can't do. You have to be very careful what you talk to, who do you talk to? It's many things that you know that really, law school doesn't prepare you for um and also other. You know legal aspects that um, uh, they don't prepare you for. That you know. Really, I had to learn in like a matter of months uh, I didn't have 30 years to learn them, oh yeah what was the reaction of the us attorney's office, the ausas and the agents, when you know you became his lawyer?

Speaker 1: 20:30

what was, what was that they?

Speaker 2: 20:32

gave me, they gave me a, they gave me a lot of shit. I'm just gonna call it how it is. I don't care if they're seeing this I hope that they're watching this podcast because they were hard on me. I think that they felt, I think, right, this is what this is all speculation.

Speaker 2: 20:46

I was a young attorney, straight out of law school, so I think that that was unsettling. I think that they were nervous about that, because I think that they maybe thought that I could do things because I could be persuaded, maybe, or that you know I could, that I just didn't have the maturity because I could be persuaded, maybe, or that you know I could, um, that I just didn't have the maturity or the experience to be in a case like this. So I don't think that they liked that and they tried it. They tried to remove me from the case. They oh my God, they did many things to try to remove from the case. They did it, which I'm not going to get into, but they, they played a bit dirty, um, you know dirty, you know, and I also had to learn that. I also had to learn very early on that the US government is not your friend, Not always.

Speaker 1: 21:34

No, not always, but I know as an agent. If I was in that situation, I would be talking to the AOSA saying let's get a plea bargain in, let's get this thing in, and maybe we'll pull the wool over somebody's eyes. No, I'm being serious on that. That is a ploy that the government will use in that kind of situation. So did you ask any time for a change of venue or anything like that? Was it considered it was going to be tried there?

Speaker 2: 22:08

Listen, we did not just because where could we put this trial? That people don't know who he is? Where could we have taken this trial?

Speaker 1: 22:16

Maybe North Dakota or something like that. Yeah, the Middle East, no yeah.

Speaker 2: 22:22

Everybody knows. Everybody knows who he is.

Speaker 1: 22:27

So, there's.

Speaker 2: 22:28

It doesn't matter which state, it doesn't matter Like he, obviously it. It's kind of like Trump, who doesn't know who Trump was Like, tell me, you know. So when you have somebody like that, really there is no venue that's going to like be more favorable to you, or you know, or if anything, you do want a democratic state. You don't want a Republican state, right In a case like that involves a Latino man, so you want maybe a place where you can get more Latinos on the jury panel, but that really doesn't mean anything when it comes down to it. It really doesn't. You know, when it comes down to it, it really doesn't.

Speaker 2: 23:06

Um, you know, it's all speculation, boy dear, and jury selection it's really all about speculation. You know, there are certain things that you can, you know, try to get, but, um, I remember that we had, we had our jury panel and we had it all. We thought that we we were ready and the day the trial started, this juror decides that he wants to tell a marshal that he wants to get an autograph from chapel. He wants a chapel's autograph. So obviously he was already in and we had to get the jury back in, and obviously he was dismissed and we had to get another juror because you know the government claimed that. Yeah, you know he was a fan. He was not going to be. You know he was going to be biased or whatever, but yeah well, that's so, that's amazing.

Speaker 1: 24:00

Um, so, that was that's tough.

Speaker 2: 24:02

He should have stayed quiet. He should have stayed silent. You know he could have. He should have asked for the autograph once the trial was over.

Speaker 1: 24:08

Oh, yeah, no that wasn't obviously at the Voidere hearing a question like that.

Speaker 2: 24:13

Seriously.

Speaker 1: 24:15

Do something with celebrity status or a question with that, so that's interesting. So you also represent the wife and can you talk about that a little bit?

Speaker 2: 24:32

Yes, I represent the wife. She also served time for a conspiracy as well, a different conspiracy than him, but she served three years, two and a half, three years, something around those lines, um, but now she's out, she's on probation and I'm still representing her. So I, we, we, you know we, my colleague jeffrey lickman and I, we worked on that case together and now she's out I'm still working with her, but on other uh matters as well. Just because you know the criminal case is over, other matters as well, just because you know the criminal case is over pretty much, I'm still working with him as well. I still go visit him.

Speaker 2: 25:13

Right now we're working on trying to get his conditions of confinement relaxed a little bit. Essentially, we're trying to get the SAMs either removed or modified, which it's going to be a battle. It's not going to be very easy. I'm sure bop and doj are not going to make it easy for us, but you know we got to try okay, and uh, I'm assuming that he's still in the location where there's a lot of skiing right in in, uh he, he is, he is in in florence and ad max, the super max, so the Alcatraz yeah, that's how they call it.

Speaker 2: 25:54

so it's, I guess it's the most secure prison. It's a federal institution, at least in the US, and that's where he's at. He's in unit H, which is where they mostly have all the SAMs and Mates as well, and it's a he's at. He's in Unit H, which is where they mostly have all the SAMs inmates as well, and it's a very, you know, restricted unit and he is alone in his cell 24 hours a day, seven days a week. He's not a general population inmate, so he cannot like interact with other inmates. He eats inside of himself, he showers inside, he does everything in his cell.

Speaker 1: 26:27

So the only time that he really speaks to someone is when I go visit him okay, because we've we have had several inmates that were in that institution and they describe it exactly like you do on the show.

Speaker 2: 26:42

We I don't know they're with. Inside of that institution, though, there's unit h, which is the worst unit, and then there's other different units inside of supermax, but he's in the worst one yeah, yeah right.

Speaker 1: 26:57

I know some of the individuals that are situated in that unit there. Um, yeah, there's not a, there's a few, but yeah there's a a few going back that were moved out of Marion into that that I dealt with. So what is his wife is now released here.

Speaker 2: 27:19

She's released. Yes, she's obviously in her probation period, but she is in the United States.

Speaker 1: 27:25

Yes, that was my next question with that.

Speaker 2: 27:29

Um, yes, she's a U S citizen too, so Right, yeah, yeah, I know she is. She wasn't deported because she's a U S citizen.

Speaker 1: 27:37

Right, right. Uh, you know I have a little experience with that. You know from case that I worked where somebody was in double life sentence and I took them. I took them home to the airport and they went back.

Speaker 2: 27:51

You're brave, huh, you're brave, you're brave.

Speaker 1: 27:55

I was a little nervous because she was released to my custody, which I think is very, very unique to the whole system.

Speaker 2: 28:02

Yeah, oh, yeah, oh yeah, so it's.

Speaker 1: 28:05

it's like 30 years later, amazing things do happen in life with that.

Speaker 2: 28:13

Do you think that'll ever happen at Guzman?

Speaker 1: 28:18

I don't think so. I mean, you know the agents better than me and the judge.

Speaker 2: 28:23

I don't think there's going to be a Toby on that team. I don't think there's going to be a Toby on that team. I don't know?

Speaker 1: 28:29

Yeah, you would know. You would know they rolled out the red carpet for you when you came. So that's what. I have to say and we had the support of the prosecutor, which was very, very important. Yeah, no, I don't think we have that either. No, no, but you't think we have that either. Tell me how you got involved with Jeffrey Epstein.

Speaker 2: 29:06

So Jeffrey Epstein, he was incarcerated there around the same time when Guzman's trial was over. He was awaiting sentence, but I was still visiting him because we were working on an appeal and other motions that you know that we were filing because a juror went on to Vice News, the newspaper, and said that they had violated, you know, the judges rules while on trial, that they were like they did not stay away from the press. So we were, you know, in the trying to fight that and trying to see if we could get a new, a new trial before sentencing. Or you know, yeah, that, and trying to see if we could get a new trial before sentencing. Or you know, yeah, exactly, a new trial. Essentially we tried. So he was awaiting sentence to be sentenced.

Speaker 2: 30:02

So Epstein arrives and Epstein was represented, he had a legal team, but one of the attorneys was also one of the attorneys that was representing Guzman on the appellate level, mark Pernish, also one of the attorneys that was representing Guzman on the appellate level, mark Pernish. And so I guess Epstein asked Mark he also needed an attorney that would visit him regularly, meaning every day, to go over all that evidence, and a younger attorney, obviously, that would do this, because once you get to a certain point in your career, I don't know why my colleagues, they just don't want to go to the jail, they don't want to visit clients, they don't Right. So they leave that work to younger attorneys like me to do the dirty work of going to jail, I guess, and meeting with the client. So he asked me if I would be you know. So he said you know, do you know of somebody?

Speaker 2: 30:50

He actually told him, I guess, do you know of somebody that could you know, a young attorney that could you know do this? I remember his words were like well, to me at least, it's like the only crazy person that I know that can stand going to that prison, to that jail every day is this attorney. And so he hired me the next day I went. So literally Chapo got sentenced on a Thursday and Friday I was already hired to go then to start visiting Epstein. I remember the guards were like your client was just sentenced and moved Because he was sentenced and usually normal inmates, they're sentenced and then they go back to that same jail and they'll move them within a month, you know two months.

Speaker 2: 31:33

No, no, no, no, no. He was sentenced and that same day he was moved to colorado. Literally he did not get back. He did not go back to ncc, he went straight to colorado. On that same thursday and, uh, the next day I started visiting Epstein and it was obviously we were a legal team but the younger attorneys were there reviewing evidence with him and all of that, and I guess I went in for the job interview and I got it.

Speaker 1: 32:02

Wow, and what was that? What was that like? I mean, you must have been making a name for yourself, you know because and you did, obviously. But you know you're representing two of the highest profile cases in the United States and they're wondering like, how did this happen and how did you get this? And what was Jeffrey Epstein's reaction to you getting hired?

Speaker 2: 32:31

I mean, he's the one that hired me. So, yeah, because I went in, mark sent me, right, the attorney, the other attorney sent me, but he ultimately hires his attorneys. So he interviewed me and hired me then and there he said, okay, yes, yeah, his attorneys. So he interviewed me and hired me then and there he said, okay, yes, yeah. So, um, that's that's how I got in on that case. I guess all my clients have hired me because, yeah, guzman may not have hired me as a paralegal, but he's, he hired me as an attorney. So that's how it's been with all my clients they've, they've hired me. Uh, I guess they see a positive asset, a value, uh, and what I bring to the table, even though I'm not the most experienced one, and they, they know that, obviously, they understand that, but I have a, I guess, a purpose and I do it right.

Speaker 1: 33:22

Uh you know, we all have. We all have a role in the kids they know you're gonna fight for them, and that's a good thing. That's how I get hired as a PI. You know because I have to when I deal, and you know what I deal with. I deal with all cooperators and victims. That's my specialty as far as that.

Speaker 2: 33:47

I get very passionate about my cases and my clients and I guess that they like that. With this line of work that I do, it's easy to lose empathy as a criminal defense attorney after a while. I've seen it in my colleagues they lose empathy. But I haven't lost that and I think that's one of the reasons why even though. I'm not the most experienced one.

Speaker 2: 34:17

They keep on hiring me because they want somebody like that also in their corner. Okay, I keep on getting hired and obviously I'm still learning along the way and I have a lot to learn. But you know I, you know that's what I'm, that's what I'm doing and I fight with them. I fight for them, with them inside of jail, getting better. You know conditions, everything. You know stuff that most attorneys really overlook because they focus on the legal stuff, like prison conditions are very important to them because they're living it daily and, um, they like that, I, I do that like they like that.

Speaker 2: 34:51

I don't. I don't get tired of emailing bop, the wardens, the counselors 10 times a day until I get you know the little thing that they're asking for. Or you know, sometimes they're, sometimes they're unreasonable requests. Some but most times aren't, most times are just basic human needs, like an extra sheet, a blanket or you know a clean uniform or literally. There are things like sometimes they're just basic human things that you know. The jails jails in the us are tough. You know we say that we have like one of the best systems. No, we don't Like they're tough. They're tough on inmates. They're not designed to reenter you into society. They're not. They should be, but they're not.

Speaker 1: 35:42

Yeah, sometimes they school people on what they're doing.

Speaker 2: 35:47

They're straight up punitive. Yeah, and that's how it is.

Speaker 1: 35:50

Yeah, and sometimes in my experience, which may differ with you is they school themselves on other things on the inside, so when they get out they can go back and be recidivists. Okay, so you know it's both they could be. Yeah, so they also have that also have.

Speaker 2: 36:08

They could be too, but they could be too, but because there's there's there's no options to you know if there were other options for them. To listen when sometimes they do it even out of necessity, like you get back and the whole world is turning your back. You can't find a job, you can't, you can't find a place to to live because they won't rent you, they literally they treat you differently. So sometimes and I'm not justifying them by any means, but sometimes they just don't have other options If they don't have a support system like a family that will support them on the outside. Nine out of 10 times, yes, they're going to go back because they don't have another option and they don't know how and they were not taught how to do it differently, because there is not a system in place really for them Halfway house to this. That's not effective.

Speaker 1: 37:00

So you're obviously opposed to minimum mandatory sentencing right to minimum mandatory sentencing right.

Speaker 2: 37:07

I not necessarily. What I'm opposed to is the way the prison system works, right, okay.

Speaker 1: 37:21

however, I am definitely opposed to life sentences okay, yeah, and I don't, I, I'm not, I'm sorry no, no, and I mean, is that all life sentences or let me? Let me just state my opinion, uh, which I do quite frequently. As far as killing cops, I think you well, I believe in capital punishment for that, and I know states it varies with life sentences and capital punishment, your views on that. You're a defense attorney and I understand that, and your background is a very religious background too, like mine was and it still is, except I miss a lot of masses, but that's my own fault. What do you think about that Cop killers and people like that that are incarcerated for, let's say, a mass murder, a child rapist?

Speaker 2: 38:29

So you want my professional opinion or my personal opinion and I get. Those get mixed.

Speaker 1: 38:35

I like both.

Speaker 2: 38:36

When we talk about when. Well, personally, like you said exactly, I'm a very religious person and I don't think that I am capable to judge other person's actions or to determine what is a good punishment for your sins, for what you've done. So I am opposed to life sentences or capital punishment for that reason, because who am I to determine what you should get? What you should get? Uh, obviously, now, professionally speaking, I understand that because there are no other alternatives in place. Sometimes that is the only option. I understand that. That doesn't mean that I, like I said, personally agree with it, but I, I understand it. Obviously I can't change it, that this, the system that I, that I work in, is a system that we live in and that's that um. But I feel like um sometimes because, for example, take, take a take.

Speaker 2: 39:32

Take a person that, like, has a mental, a mental issue, and he just kills and kills and kills and he can't control himself. Well, you're, you're, you're punishing that person, whether it be killing her or him, or giving it a life sentence, because he has a mental issue that he can't control, right, but at the same time, that that mental issue is hurting others. So the only alternative is let's lock him up for the rest of his life or let's end his life. So, but because there's no other alternative. So I get it, but I just don't. Morally I, who am I to determine what you should get for the sin or the crime that you committed?

Speaker 1: 40:14

Yeah.

Speaker 2: 40:15

And that's just the way I see it.

Speaker 1: 40:16

No, and that's that's a good legal point, no more a morality point. Morality point I've experienced prisoners that I've had that have introduced themselves to me by saying good morning, Mr Roach. Nothing personal, but I'm doing multiple life sentences. If I get a chance to kill you I will try to escape immediately and I know that's mostly a form of intimidation. The reality is it's not going to happen, they're not going to escape from me. But again, there are some that some of the gangs that are in prison that and these are vicious criminals. This isn't white collar crime or anything like that that I've dealt with in that so hopefully you don't have to deal with those.

Speaker 1: 41:05

Um right, okay so I haven't.

Speaker 2: 41:08

I haven't. But you know, obviously, if you ask me somebody, uh take for example, conspiracy, drug conspiracies, most of them, literally, because of the minimum mandatories they get life or 30 plus. I don't think that for drug conspiracies you should get a life sentence. But then again, obviously you know, I just follow the system, I don't make the rules. And hey, listen, you have your own experience with Evelyn. And hey, listen, you have your own experience with Evelyn. I want to hear about you and what you thought that she should have gotten a life sentence you thought when you put her in jail, right, were you happy that she was going to get a life sentence?

Speaker 1: 42:00

Did you think that she deserved it? I thought I knew there was a minimum mandatory sentencing which the judge, who was a very, very good judge that released her and incarcerated her, had to follow. She wouldn't talk to us. She was an individual who was beaten by her husband and we all knew that. She had improper legal representation, who was representing the Cali cartel, to be quite frank about it, and we knew that the self-interest. He's since passed away and I feel with him, there was a special place in hell for him because he didn't represent his client truthfully, truthfully. And as far as Evelyn, yeah, she was abused. We gave her every opportunity to speak with us and probably would have received five to 10 years under what was laid out in front of her for that. So again, she's much more productive back in Columbia, in my personal and professional opinion, than sitting in Tallahassee for the next 40 years.

Speaker 2: 43:12

But she had minimum mandatory. So take a case like that. Maybe she wasn't deserving of a minimum mandatory, but because that is how the law is, that's what she got. So I wish that it was case by case and not, you know, you just have to follow the guidelines and that's it. So that is my thing with the with the minimum mandatories, but I guess that is a topic for another day.

Speaker 1: 43:33

No, it's a huge topic.

Speaker 2: 43:35

They're not just there. They sometimes don't justify, they're not just it's a, it's a, you know, a blank slate, like it's like same for everybody and that's it. But I think that it should be on a case by case. Um, when you're going to sentence, you're going to sentence someone, especially if you're going to cut that person completely. You know, uh, you know his liberty and you're going to put that person essentially in hell for the next. You know, whatever x amount of years, like it has to be proportionate I the punishment to what you did and their circumstances. Right, that lets you to do that. But the system doesn't work like that and that's why I don't like the minimum mandatories.

Speaker 1: 44:14

Yeah, and like I remember, when the crackademic occurred, they had people getting life sentences for as addicts, you knows, with the intent to sell and that's what it fell under with that, because there was a big panic when it came in. And I wonder about the new situation with fentanyl, because now that's a real problem because it's coming in from China and places like that into Mexico. And I had the head of the Mexico City office for DEA, who retired on the show and he's just with fentanyl. He says that's going to destroy things. It's wiping out 125,000 people. That's a small city in the States and you know, and I you know I have my own political beliefs which I don't put on this show and I don't want it on there.

Speaker 1: 45:14

But as far as border control, that needs to be enhanced, you know something that your generation will deal with the effects in 20 years, when I'm sitting in the nursing home trying to remember my name Kidding, but you get my point.

Speaker 2: 45:34

Don't say that. I'm sure your daughter won't allow that to happen to you.

Speaker 1: 45:39

No, no. Even my ex-wife won't allow that to happen to me, hopefully. So again, you're such a lawyer, you're turning it on me. That's why you're a good lawyer, marielle because you know how to turn the tables.

Speaker 1: 45:54

Let's talk about your singing career. I'm amazed with that because that was your, your childhood dream and you've accomplished that too, and that must make your family very. I know it makes your family very proud to have that happen too. Can you talk about that aspect a little bit? With the videos and she has great videos online that I've seen, uh online that I've seen and uh, they're, they're, they're uh thought-provoking and uh morally very good. I like the one with the military ending in it. I don't want to spoil it because I want people to watch it, but uh, can you talk about that a little?

Speaker 2: 46:37

bit okay, yeah, of course. So, like I said I, I knew I wanted to be a singer since a very early age. My dad is a, uh, musical director and and performer and drummer in in puerto rico and so I always, always around music, I was always around that, that that scene, the entertainment world. I would go to his rehearsals, I would go to his shows and everything. And from a very early age I knew I wanted to be a singer, I knew I wanted to be a performer. Um, my parents, uh, wanted a more traditional career for me, especially my dad, because he was inside of the entertainment industry and he knew how hard it was and that there's really not a lot of room for people. It's very competitive and you know it's just it's it's, it's a tough world, the entertainment industry. So he tried to, he tried to, I guess not, you know he tried to. He tried his best to like, steer me away from it. But when something is your passion, it just is. So I was a good girl. I went to, you know, law school. I did. I got a, I guess, a more traditional career, how they want it.

Speaker 2: 47:50

But I turned 30, to what? Last year? No, the year before, and I went through a bariatric surgery. I was, I was very I, I was overweight, I was almost 200. I was actually 200 pounds, and so I went to, I did a, I got a bariatric surgery and I lost a lot of weight. And when I lost a lot of weight, I guess I found myself again, and I found I regained my confidence, and with that, you know, I also regained the desire and the passion for the music and like it. Just, it was something that I turned 30. I look, I look like this.

Speaker 2: 48:32

Now I want to do this because I don't want to. I I don't want to not do something in my life because, you know, out of fear, I, like I wanted to do it. It was something that, if I didn't do, I was going to regret. I feared that I was going to regret it. So I spoke to my family and I spoke to some of my colleagues and I told them you know, this is something that I've always wanted to do and I feared that if I don't do it, I'm going to regret it 30, 40 years now. I am very scared that if I do this, though, that I'm going to lose credibility, and I'm going to lose my you know my credibility as an attorney and that people are maybe not going to see me as a professional attorney anymore and they're just going to see me as a performer, and that it may affect my practice. But I'm more scared that if I don't do this, I'm going to regret it and I don't want to live with that regret, especially because it's my passion, it's what I've always wanted to do. I don't want to live with that regret, especially because it's my passion, it's what I've always wanted to do and I'm good at it too. So I spoke to my family and they understood. I spoke to my colleagues and they thought that I should do it and I decided to do it.

Speaker 2: 49:34

I decided to do it professionally because I always sang, I always took lessons, but it was more like as a hobby, not professionally, like I'm doing it now, and I went for it and I am very involved in the original Mexican. Even though I'm Puerto Rican, I sing. All I do is sing. All I sing is original Mexican music and I am loving every, every single step of it. I'm loving every single experience. I've already have six singles out uh, with all my, my lyrics. Obviously they're very I, I write.

Speaker 2: 50:09

I write my music with, with my producers. So I'm very involved in the creative process and in the writing and the composition process. Um, because I write mostly about my experiences, or people's experiences, like you know, personal experiences, because I want people to feel identified with my music and with what you know, I've lived, and I also, I think, that shows, or I project that on my videos, because all my videos they have storylines, like you said, um, that many people can relate to. So, yeah, so I'm very happy with the direction that aspect of my life is taking. I am working right now on an EP, which is an electronic production, which is a small album. It's going to have five to six songs. Right now I'm working on the fourth one and I'm very, very excited, excited. It should come out in august. So this summer I have now, between these, like four to six weeks. I have a lot of work like filming music videos, going to a recording uh studio, uh, and doing a lot of stuff and then, um, but I'm very excited, I'm very excited to see uh for the people right, really to see you know the, the work that I'm doing and uh connect with my, with my music.

Speaker 2: 51:30

I'm still going to be an attorney. That's something I'm not gonna, you know. I'm not gonna stop being an attorney. I'm still gonna do that. I still have cases. I just picked up a new case in the in the picked up a new case in the Washington DC district, a federal case, involving also conspiracy to distribute, you know, narcotics and whatnot. That's mostly what they call me for. So I'm still doing both. I'm still doing both careers. I I think I found the uh, the way to match them both and and just be, you know, present at both no, that's great.

Speaker 1: 52:12

Um, I'm I'm sure this will end up being a story for hollywood down the line.

Speaker 2: 52:20

I know it will be might have some insider information, but uh, it don't hope it's, it's gonna happen.

Speaker 1: 52:28

We know that. It's just. Just. Like you know, I I don't like saying everything's blessed in life, you've worked for everything you have. I mean, this is your singing voice is great, even though I don't understand the spanish and, like I said, it's uh you know the translation you can't train me, I can't.

Speaker 1: 52:49

I I play the bandajo, I understand, but as far as me speaking it, forget about it, it ain't gonna happen. So with that, oh wow, yeah, but I've. But some people, you know, have tried to teach me it, but I'm a failure with that.

Speaker 2: 53:08

At least you understand it. That's the most important thing. So you know they're talking about it too, or not?

Speaker 1: 53:13

I pretend that I don't, though I like that, you know, because I like hearing. As soon as I hear gringo my ears perk up, you know, and I say, here comes something derogatory. And I heard that from Evelyn too, way back in the day and I remind her of that constantly.

Speaker 2: 53:30

Oh really.

Speaker 1: 53:31

Constantly yes, yes, that's funny. So what are your future plans? I mean, you know, where do you see yourself in 20 years from now?

Speaker 2: 53:47

to yourself in 20 years from now. So I see myself as still being an attorney, but also, you know, a singer. I still on the legal aspect. I see myself expanding my practice. Right now I'm only in, so my practice is in New York City, but I want to also take other state bars and expand my practice, maybe also put a firm in Florida, maybe one in Puerto Rico as well, where we do state and federal cases, and also hiring more attorneys to help and everything and the on the other aspect, right on the on the on the entertainment, uh, uh career or the singing career, I see myself hopefully, you know, being a very successful big artist. You know, uh, very renamed and um, just being able to to make money out of the two things that I like the most in life, and I think that once you do that, it doesn't feel like work.

Speaker 1: 54:53

Yeah Well, who knows, maybe you'll get an Academy award winning song in near future, you?

Speaker 2: 54:59

know, I definitely, definitely, definitely. But that's. I hope that within the next at least years at least I get a grammy yeah, yeah, well that's latin grammy and a grammy both there you go double, double-edged sword.

Speaker 1: 55:13

That's uh, that's what I always, always say that's, that's the goal. That's, that's the goal yeah, well, I want say I don't see myself having kids, don't want kids. Don't want kids. No, okay, I have a beautiful.

Speaker 2: 55:30

I have a beautiful. No, I have a beautiful nephew, but I don't don't want kids.

Speaker 1: 55:35

Okay, yeah, that's. That's a big challenge in itself, but you know, with your nephew that's quite wonderful.

Speaker 2: 55:47

More than enough. Yeah, I'm going to have a second one now, so oh, I didn't know that.

Speaker 1: 55:51

That's good, that's congratulations.

Speaker 2: 55:53

Yeah, they're pregnant. She's five weeks pregnant. Yeah.

Speaker 1: 55:58

And her family is very patriotic. If I can mention your brother, he's in the military, serving our country.

Speaker 2: 56:06

Yes, yes, he actually is in the—well. He was in the Navy but he was able to—one of the very few people that can do that but he was able to switch branches and now he's in the Marines. And right now he's in Quantico in a training, a five-week training where he can't communicate with nobody. He's on one of those training camps, or whatever they call it Recon camp.

Speaker 1: 56:33

He's now on.

Speaker 2: 56:36

Right, right, right, so now he's a Marine Corps.

Speaker 1: 56:38

Okay.

Speaker 2: 56:39

Yeah, I was looking on the Facebook page so they have a Facebook page and I saw a picture of him and they had just shaved his entire head.

Speaker 1: 56:49

Yeah, He'll get over it.

Speaker 2: 56:52

I sent him letters already. I'm waiting for him to respond. I know they have barely time to do anything, but he'll respond obviously.

Speaker 1: 57:02

Yeah, anything, but yeah, he'll respond, obviously. Yeah, well, just don't send him liquor in the mail, because the the, uh, the other people razz him and they'll drink it, especially if you get some good puerto rican rum to send to him, you know yeah he, he, you, I'll be able to.

Speaker 2: 57:19

So he graduates, uh, in august. Now, uh, I don't know exactly what he's doing. This is five weeks.

Speaker 1: 57:24

He's not going to tell you. That's why he's in that job?

Speaker 2: 57:28

I don't know you know.

Speaker 1: 57:29

Yeah, you can't tell me Whatever they're doing.

Speaker 2: 57:33

I'll be able to talk to him in August 3rd, yeah, so yeah, I'm very excited, but he's like a tough, you know, he's literally the opposite of me, obviously.

Speaker 1: 57:48

Yeah, well, yeah, he's very different.

Speaker 2: 57:50

He's very like you know. He's very military, he's very pro-government, he's very, yeah, very different. Yeah.

Speaker 1: 57:59

Can I mention he's an MMA fan.

Speaker 2: 58:02

Yeah, of course, and he is a former fighter as well, yeah, that's pretty amazing that he was in that. I just left that world a couple months ago as far as sitting on the sidelines with that, but that's why I'm able to, but I don't know which one's worse seeing your baby brother in the Marines doing whatever he's doing, which I don't know, or seeing him in the cage fighting. It's like really, kid, You're going to kill me and my mom.

Speaker 1: 58:33

Well, that's what he wants to do. You know he wants to get at his sister. You know, that's how it is. Of course right, it's how it is Of course right, same way you know, and that. But no, I appreciate you very much coming on here.

Speaker 1: 58:52

No, thank you for the invite Turning the tables on me. Only a lawyer can do that. We just had Evelyn's. It's on YouTube now the podcast with him. He's Paul Pelletier. He the podcast with him. He's Paul Pelletier. He was the prosecutor, okay and good guy Complete opposite of me as far as politics and personality, and that even though we're both from the Commonwealth of Massachusetts. I was on a different team, but yeah, he was a great prosecutor and an honest person, just like you are.

Speaker 2: 59:29

Just take it on. Challenges, take it on challenges.

Speaker 1: 59:33

So anyway, it's been a pleasure. Thank you, Mariel. I'll talk with you soon.

Speaker 2: 59:37

Thank you so much, bye Thank you, Toby Bye. Thanks.