Justice Then, Justice Now
This podcast explores the American criminal justice system from all angles, including perspectives from: law enforcement, prosecution, inmates, fugitives and everything in between.
Justice Then, Justice Now
Ep 11: Sam Weitz - Sanctuary Cities from a Homeland Security Perspective
This week on Justice Then, Justice Now, we are honored to welcome Sam Weitz, who's journey from Atlantic City to becoming a federal agent is nothing short of inspiring. From a pivotal connection with a local mayor that kickstarted his career at just 20 years old to navigating complex state laws and networking, Sam's story is informative and entertaining.
As Sam reminisces about his career, he shares eye-opening experiences and challenges faced in federal law enforcement. Sam opens up about specific cases, including the tragic fallout from a sergeant's unfit leadership, offering candid reflections on the political landscapes within federal agencies and how professionalism and respect are vital for maintaining morale and mission success.
We also tackle the heated topic of sanctuary city policies, particularly in Seattle and King County. Sam shares his firsthand experiences and frustrations with illegal immigration enforcement under these local policies. From significant drug busts to powerful personal stories about immigration's impact on law enforcement, this episode provides an unfiltered look at policy, accountability, and their broader implications. Join us for an episode rich with insights, emotional highs and lows, and a veteran's unwavering commitment to justice.
Produced by: Citrustream, LLC
Welcome everybody to the Justice Then, justice Now podcast where we talk everything criminal justice system, the entire spectrum. On today's show we have Sam White. How are you doing, sam?
Speaker 2:Very good sir. Thank you for the invitation.
Speaker 1:Thank you for joining us. My name is Jeff Thomas and the main man is Toby Roche on the Just the Thin, just is Now podcast. I'm just helping out, but I'm going to do my best, as the curious dummy of the crew, to maybe try to translate some of the jargon you guys might be talking for our lay listeners. But first of all, sam, where are you from? How did you grow up? Where are you from and what was your family like?
Speaker 2:Well, originally from Atlantic City, New Jersey, and born and raised there and basically stayed there until my federal law enforcement career started. Prior to that, though, I became a police officer in the state of New Jersey. First city was Seattle City, which was in Cape May County, small community, oceanfront, and then I moved on to Margate City, new Jersey, for approximately five years six years, before I finally got to be a federal agent that I've always strived to be.
Speaker 1:So did you grow up always wanting to be a police officer, or was it something?
Speaker 2:that you learned late and then from there, the federal agent. Always, always, in fact. I never would go out Halloween. I would never try not to get in trouble. I've always wanted to be a police officer. I remember in high school people were asking me what I want to be. I said a police officer. And my friends oh, you need to go into business, you're not going to make any money as a police officer, you're not going to make any money. I wasn't interested in making money, I was interested in being a police officer. In fact, my first job police officer job in Seattle City paid $7,200 a year and back then that was big money for me anyway. And it's an interesting story that I should address just quick, that I should address just quick how I became a police officer.
Speaker 2:The state of New Jersey dropped the age limit to 18. And I applied. I was 19, going on 20. And I took the civil service test. I got appointed or I got selected past the test for Camden, trenton, new Jersey, east Orange. I remember this like it was yesterday, west New York, and I'm going for interviews because I scored high in the test. I'm going for interviews and they keep telling me I'm too young, you have to be 21. I'm like what do you mean? You have to be 21? I took the civil service test. It was 18 and above. In order to carry a firearm, you have to be 21. I'm like what do you mean? You have to be 21? I took the civil service test. It was 18 and above. In order to carry a firearm, you have to be 21.
Speaker 2:So I keep getting turned down by these cities and I finally sought legal advice and we were ready to go into superior court because I kept getting turned down jobs and I was getting very, very disgusted. So one day I'm talking to my father in front of my house, the people across the street come over. Hey, sam, how you doing? Haven't seen you. I said well, I'm not really doing that good. To be honest, I'm trying to become a police officer and I was in community college at the time for law enforcement. I said every city I go to Newark, camden West, new York, trenton I mean not golden spots for someone to become a police officer. So I said I've got an interview Monday. I'll never forget that I got an interview Monday in a small city called Seattle City in Cape May County. Right away the wife says, we know the mayor there. And I'm like, yeah, ok, everybody knows somebody. So I said, well, she goes, let me make a phone call. When's your interview? I said it's Monday. I said, but my problem is I'm too young. I have a lawyer, we're fighting. She goes. Well, let me call the mayor. Thank you very much. I go for my interview. I meet the chief First thing out of his mouth I've heard so much about you, sam, when can you start?
Speaker 2:I said well, wait a second. You know I'm only 20 years old. I just turned 20. Because, sam, you come highly recommended. So that's when I learned, no matter how much education you have, no matter how much experience you have, it's always good to know somebody that knows somebody. And I became a police officer and that's how I first started at age 20 in Seattle City, new Jersey. But they, they put me through the mill and then I left. Like I said, I went to Margate City and I was there about six years and that's right outside of Atlantic City. And the reason I left Seattle City was because I was going into a four year college and it was closer for me to commute back and forth at night while I was working.
Speaker 1:Very cool. Someone told me once it's not who you know, it's who knows you, and I think that was the perfect example of that.
Speaker 2:Well, that was a perfect example of that. And then again I went to Bargate City. Can I ask a?
Speaker 3:question Sam. And it's a technical thing for us. I also was hired at 20. Okay, and how did it? Was 21 to carry a firearm, or had they reduced that to 18 as the department? What was your argument with the chief?
Speaker 2:okay, well, all the the other police departments I mentioned the larger cities. Uh, as soon as I went in, they told me I was too young and that was federal. Uh, toby, as you probably know, that was a federal law. In order to carry a firearm back then you had to be 21, but new jersey, in particular, allowed 18 year olds to become police officers. So you were, you were called in a catch-22, you know? Uh, sure, I passed the civil service test, I met all the requirements, but unfortunately you're too young. Seattle City cared less. He didn't care if I was 18, 19, 20.
Speaker 2:He hired me and the rest is history. And then I went to Margate and I started to learn a lot about law enforcement, the criminal justice system. Just briefly, and I won't go into it. Years go by and they appoint one officer as a sergeant and myself and just about the entire department went into the chief and we told him that he's dangerous. I mean for, as you know, toby, for a police officer to step up about another police officer's personality or work habits, uh, it takes a lot because you're going against the brother, but we all felt that, in the best interest of safety to all, because of his attitude, because of his behavior, if you make him a sergeant and again, I remember this, some things as you, toby, you remember the rest of your life we went in, we said, chief, he's going to kill somebody or kill himself. And the chief at that time said he's going to be your sergeant, you respect him and you obey him. Okay, chief, I worked the 4 to 12 shift on a Saturday night.
Speaker 2:It was in November of 1975. I went off work at a quarter to 12. I got a phone call at 4 am. This individual who made sergeant just started his first shift at midnight on Sunday morning in November it was his first shift. I got to be honest, I didn't even congratulate him. He came in, we got briefed on what happened on our shift and I left Four o'clock in the morning. I got a phone call.
Speaker 2:You're not going to believe this. What he's dead, what he was chasing a motorcycle and I don't know if you can see this photo. I'll try to. Ok, that was the result of him chasing a motorcycle. He was driving, crashed into a tree and killed himself. He was only a sergeant for four hours. Luckily, his partner broken hip, broken leg, but he survived. And that was probably the eye-opening and beginning of me realizing that you can only do so much. And uh, as a result, he was dead four hours after they put the stripes on him I just just wanted to ask pretty devastating um what happened to go ahead no, I'm just going to say that, and this will lead me into some other things that I'd like to discuss if I had the time I get into the office.
Speaker 2:I was working at 8 am on Saturdays. We double backed. If you work 4 to 12, you come back 8 o'clock in the morning, so I come in. I guess it was like 6 o'clock in the morning so I come in. I guess it was like 6 o'clock in the morning and everybody's were kind of shocked, you know, uh, sad, and the chief's there and uh, the chief, god bless him was very religious and went to church every Sunday and part of that was had to do church that the chief wanted. That's what the chief got on Sunday mornings. So it's about 8.15.
Speaker 2:The poor officer just was killed four hours ago and I'm standing around, you know which is, we have our heads down and the chief goes to me. Sam, it's 830. I said, yes, sir, he goes, we got to continue on. You got church traffic. I'm like, chief, the officer's not even deceased four hours and you're worried about church traffic, sam, we have to. Life has to go on Anyway. So that's one of my experiences and I just but I, you know, I took that as a learning experience and I'll get to that again if we have time. The death of a police officer you know it's tragic as we see on TV, it's horrific as we see on TV and the next day or maybe the next hour.
Speaker 3:Life goes on and that's what one of the issues I've had later on in my career with the feds that got me extremely discouraged to the to the point where I realized that I in management just couldn't do it anymore. Yeah, that's very traumatic.
Speaker 2:I mean it's the ultimate sacrifice.
Speaker 3:My question was they did apprehend the motorcycle operator and he was fully prosecuted, right?
Speaker 2:Yes, Okay, that's some justice on that for sure. So so, uh, as a police officer, I learned a lot, and let me just backtrack real quick, Uh, cause I took this with me throughout my police career and my federal law enforcement career of over 26 years. Uh, there was a Sergeant in the police academy Can I mention his name? He's deceased Very, very nice gentleman, Six foot five, six foot six, about 250 pounds. His name was Bob Clifton. I'll never forget. So he was in charge of the police academy and the very first step within a couple hours, he stood up in front of the room and he made a speech that again I'll remember that half of the officers in the room, Within 20 years we'll never see their retirement. They're either going to quit or they're going to get killed. I mean, he, he let us, he let us in. He gave us the straight scoop and he said the other half.
Speaker 2:You're going to get by. You're probably going to end up in divorce. He goes. I don't know why any of you guys want to pursue this career, but let me tell you something, what I'm about to teach you here you better listen and you better learn, or you're going to be dead. And he went on to say and this goes back to the story, uh, with the police officer that the sergeant that was killed. He went on to say that if and when god forbid you get killed in the line of duty, everybody's going to be upset. They're going to put the black little band on their badge. The mayor is going to give a little speech about what a great guy you were. The chief of police is going to give a little speech about a great guy you were. They're going to fold up a flag. The mayor might order the flags be lowered for your city and the next day you're going to be forgotten about. And that sounds harsh, but it's the reality Because again, we'll get to it.
Speaker 2:In my federal career, after I retired, I started doing public speaking and I had all the statistics on the police officers killed, wounded by illegal aliens. It's all public information. A couple of weeks ago, another police officer was killed. In another part of the country. A month prior, a police officer was killed. And what has been done about it? Absolutely nothing. And again, that gets to the end of my career. When I just realized, as far as I was concerned as an assistant special agent in charge with Homeland Security, the mission for me was sadly over.
Speaker 1:Sam, I got a question, kind of backtracking a little bit, when you were talking about how you went to your superiors and said look, there's trouble on the horizon for the sergeant. Was it like personality traits? Was it like not enough training? Like what gave you that indication? Was it something that could have been taught that would have prevented you know him from tragically, you know, dying so soon or, you know, are some people cut out for it and some people just not Like what are your thoughts on that?
Speaker 2:You kind of hit it. Number one I he was not cut out for it. Toby, you and I, we discussed this we worked with agents that just were not cut out for it Whether one agent had a very nervous condition. He just got very, very nervous.
Speaker 3:He froze.
Speaker 2:Management realized that he froze Sam on the street. He froze on surveillance, literally with drugs and moved god and I will say that not only did agents recognize it, but management recognized it. So they put him in the office and he did office work and, uh, that's fine. I I mean, look, not everybody is cut out for to be put in positions of life and death and stress, as Toby can account. Many days there is no threat of death, there is no stress, but when there is, there is is there?
Speaker 2:is I mean, when you're dealing with three, four, five, six tons of cocaine, when you're dealing with millions and millions of dollars, when you're dealing with people on the street that you're arresting, that everyone back in the 80s, as Toby can tell you, carried a firearm. It's a lot of stress. So, to answer your question, in his particular case, our view was his attitude was horrific towards citizens. He had a badge and you do what I tell you to do or I'm going to kick your ass. That was his attitude. You cannot disagree with him.
Speaker 2:Even when he was a police officer, there'd be confrontations on arresting individuals, how to arrest them, the mannerism when you arrest someone. I can tell you and again, toby can personally I treated and I hate to use the word, but I will every scumbag with as much respect as I would want in return, until they didn't show me the respect. I can be the meanest SOB, but I tried to be the most professional and I got to say I've been very fortunate in my federal career as well as police, that I never shot anyone. I don't have all these stories about shootouts. I never had that problem. I always respect people. To go back to the sergeant, he did not respect people, he was arrogant and I hate to say that. He was obnoxious, I hate to say that. And he was brutal. And when you give someone even more power, you don't have to be a psychologist to know that's. You're adding fuel to the fire.
Speaker 3:Four hours later he was gone not the public view with him, but with the, with the officers that he'd have to make a split second decision involving safety or whatever you're doing, and he hesitated or he went overly aggressive to the right, which caused danger for you guys.
Speaker 2:Overly, overly aggressive you nailed it, toby. I'm sure in your career you've met people like that and extremely, overly aggressive. I don't want to go into great detail, but officers saw him in action. We brought it to the attention of the chief. The chief basically shrugged his shoulders and said he's going to be the sergeant and that's the end of it. So that was the end of it. Sad Four hours later gone.
Speaker 1:So this type of kind of negligence with management? It seems like you were kind of hinting at that. That was something you had to deal with your entire career, would you say it's? It's more or less the higher you go up into like federal agencies and stuff, or is it just like the same but different?
Speaker 2:I can talk from experience because my career I started out and I don't play politics, I never have, I never will, and I speak my mind and sometimes that's not good, but I always kept true to myself. It took me what? 19 years to get promoted. And let me just backtrack. I did the biggest cases and we'll go through those. I'm not patting myself on the back, but Toby knows because we both work together. I had big, big international drug money laundering cases.
Speaker 2:I was selected for internal affairs, which is another story. With the US Customs Service I fought that big time trying to get out of going to internal affairs. I got my master's degree in criminal justice. I went to headquarters for a three-year tour and I basically what we called it punched my ticket. The reason I punched my ticket was because, like everyone else, you hope to go into management. So I got my master's degree, I went to IA, I went to headquarters. I come out of headquarters or, I'm sorry, I come out of internal affairs. After serving three years I start applying for positions. Nope, I don't get selected and again, as Toby can tell you, because we were side individuals that, for whatever reason, really didn't like me.
Speaker 1:But it is what it is.
Speaker 3:They were envious.
Speaker 2:They never done cases and never done cases. Finally, I reached a point where I said you know, I've got all this in my background. I've been an excellent agent. It's time to fight this. So again, here we go. I seek out legal opinion and there's an announcement that comes out for Kalispell Montana. I don't know if you ever heard of Kalispell Montana, but they were looking for a resident agent in charge.
Speaker 2:So I'm saying to myself, who the hell is going to put in for Kalispell Montana? It's on the northwest border of Montana. And I'm saying to myself at the time I'm going to put in for, and when I don't get Northwest Montana, I'm going to really nail them to the wall. Well, I put in for Northwest Montana, I got promoted. So now I'm telling my wife at the time Unfortunately she passed away at the time we're leaving Fort Lauderdale and we're going to northwest Montana, kalispell. Well, after I picked her up off the floor, we moved out there and I got promoted and I had to go, because here I am fighting to get promoted. The government can turn around. Let's be honest and say, sam, we offered you calispell montana and you turned it down. So I had to go and I went. So, toby, did you want to ask a question? Yeah?
Speaker 3:Yeah, I know his wife, Karen, and she's a wonderful woman and I went to the wedding and, Sam, you know, I said this is the right person for you. And to go from Fort Lauderdale to Snow Country, I know I wouldn't do it, you know I'm originally from Mass, as you know. Do it, you know, I'm originally from Mass, as you know, but I have very good friends there from the police department, high school and all that. But to go back, no, and obviously Sam, Sam did the cases. He had to check what legitimately checked the boxes, search warrants, arrests, investigations, search warrants, arrests, investigations, international and all this.
Speaker 3:And unfortunately, there's a group of people that we worked with. I called them the ride-alongs in the book and what Pete Thrawn put out was these are individuals who didn't do the work but when they put in their promotional papers for experience they would put Sam's case down or different things, creating undercover operations, which doesn't happen with a lot of agents, Like Title III's wiretaps. I've never done one, but there were people who worked on wiretaps as surveillance or whatever, and they said that they originated the wiretap. So, you know, Sam had to leave, he had for a promotion and I had the same thing in my career, you know, and starting with the Marshal Service. So I hope that I've read something now that Homeland Security is going to do more local promotions and internal hiring at the we call the special agent in charge level. So I think that may alleviate someone having to leave the beaches of Fort Lauderdale and go to Montana to get a promotion. Right, right, right, Okay.
Speaker 1:Right, so what was the day-to-day like up there in Montana? Are you like, you know, like watching, like making sure, is there like a border crossing up there or something Like? What was the? What was it like?
Speaker 2:That's a very good question. Yes, there's two border crossings that go into British Columbia. Good question. Yes, there's two border crossings that go into British Columbia and we were the first. The FBI had an office, two-man office. We were right down the hall from them. In fact I built our office, the Homeland Security Office. I didn't build it, I remodeled it. It was in an office building. I didn't move into it for six months after I got to Montana, but we were the first true law enforcement federal agency that was on the northwest Montana border, other than the FBI, who only did investigations on the Indian reservations.
Speaker 2:As you may or may not know, the FBI has that oversight of investigations on federal Indian land and a lot of crime you may or may not know, a lot of crime on Indian reservations that the FBI is very, very busy with. And there were two agents. So this is kind of ironic, but I take my skills that I learned in Miami back in the 80s when I was with DEA. And if I can, and then I'll get to your question, jeff. And if I can, and then I'll get to your question, jeff, if I can, I just want to give you a real quick oversight because I was recognized in the Southern District of Florida, miami and the entire Southern District, west Palm, fort Lauderdale, over to the West Coast and I did a case in Baltimore. I was recognized as an expert and I'm the last one to toot my horn. But I just want to give you a quick overview that I know what I'm talking about. In fact I have to document, when I was doing public speaking, everything I say because some people just he's not, he's just exaggerating. I don't exaggerate, I have no reason to exaggerate. So I took the skills that I learned from Miami drug enforcement to Montana. Sounds crazy, but Just a little background, real. I Graduated DEA basic Academy in 1983.
Speaker 2:1985, january I had five and a half tons of marijuana seizure I investigated successfully. Easter Sunday of 1985, I had 18, I'm sorry 800 pounds of cocaine. April 3rd 1985, I had 32 pounds of pure cocaine seized. April 19th 1985, 5,100 pounds of marijuana. I seized August 31st 1985, 1,000 pounds of cocaine. Pounds of cocaine. September 16th 1985, 440 pounds of cocaine. That's a case I did in Santa Domingo which I can talk for hours on that case January 24.
Speaker 2:November 6, 1997, 3,700 pounds of cocaine. That we did a controlled delivery. That means we watched it. We followed the 18 wheelers going to New York and I'm pretty good doing investigations, as Toby also is excellent and his career speaks for itself. So I took that knowledge and skill that I learned from Miami to Montana, and you're probably saying as well as the viewers wait a second, he's in northwest Montana. What the hell happens in northwest Montana with cocaine or marijuana? So I get there and I was by myself for the first maybe five, six months, and then I was sent two brand new agents from the academy. Don't ask me how they got selected from Montana, but so I'm driving around and there's one house and Toby you can relate to this in the middle of nowhere in Montana, with 8-foot 10-foot cement walls around it with cameras. Are you picturing this, toby? Yeah, and I want to hear about the firearms inside, because that's definitely something you encountered.
Speaker 2:So with the private cameras surveillance system set up and I'm looking, because they had iron gates, all these fancy cars I'm saying wait a second. Okay, I might be in Northwest Montanaana, but a doper is a doper, I'm sorry. A drug dealer is a drug dealer, you can say no matter whether you're in miami or not doper, okay.
Speaker 2:So, uh, I started doing some background investigations, just generic who owns the house, how long it's been there, what, what the owner does for business, and he's a used car salesman. He's a used car salesman and he brings cars back and forth from Canada, which you know. I guess you can get a about the registration process, but anyway. So I'm saying to myself, wait a second, this guy, he's a used car salesman, he lives like this. So the investigation continues.
Speaker 2:My two rookie agents come in, I tell them what I want done, because I was the supervisor and I want to give them as much experience and much training as possible. And to make a short story, long middle of the night I get a phone call from one of the ports of entry that they apprehended, discovered a tractor trailer with cars coming into Kalispell, montana, that was loaded with BC Bud, british Columbia Bud marijuana. Well, back then BC Bud was the number one primo marijuana that people throughout the United States wants, chemo marijuana that people throughout the united states wants. So I'm like, okay, so we go up to the port, interview the truck driver. Of course he knows nothing. He knows nothing. We do the background, lo and behold, who do you think the truck is registered to bingo the guy with the nice house.
Speaker 2:So eventually, yes. So eventually he flips. We arrest this guy. We seize his house as you know, toby under acid forfeiture, anything related to drugs, transportation of storage, purchased by drug money. We seized it, we cleaned him out. I believe he got seven years and as a result of that I then got promoted because it was the largest marijuana seizure in the state of Montana at that time and probably still is. So I got offered a position in Seattle as the assistant special agent in charge. I had 50 agents, I had five group supervisors and two technicians that would do wiretaps and cameras, and I thought I made my career. I thought that I finally got to management with Homeland Security. We now became Homeland Security and I realized that that was actually my downfall in my federal law enforcement career.
Speaker 1:And how did you realize that? What was? Uh, how soon after you got that promotion did you realize it wasn't what it seemed.
Speaker 2:I'm going to say probably within six months, I realized that the politics played more into federal law enforcement than I ever thought. Look, let's be honest with one another. We know there's politics in everything, but in law enforcement and criminal justice, in my view, there is no room for politics. Once you put politics into criminal justice or law enforcement, whether it's local, whether it's county, whether it's state or whether it's federal, it's not going to work. And sure enough, homeland Security was loaded with politics, especially again was loaded with politics, especially again, I'm in Washington state, I'm in Seattle and I have 50 federal agents and about 25 of those were assigned to immigration, illegal immigration, and, uh, I can talk for hours, I don't need to if anybody watches the news every day. We see what's going on at the border, we see what's going on with fentanyl, we see what's going on with and I call them might not be politically correct illegal aliens. People that cross our border illegally are illegal aliens. There's a process, as everyone knows if you want to become a citizen, you go through. But again, I don't need to expel and expand on the current status of our border. Everyone reads it every single day status of our border. Everyone reads it every single day, everyone reads the horrific, horrific crimes committed by illegal aliens. And that's when I first started realizing what sanctuary cities, what sanctuary states are.
Speaker 2:Because I'm in management, I'm responsible for 25 or 30 agents assigned to immigration enforcement and they handcuffed me, which means I had to handcuff my agents, and it just got progressively worse. I had Congress people calling my supervisor Again. I was assistant special agent in charge, second in charge, there was a special agent in charge, and then me for the entire state of Washington. I took that very, very seriously and what would happen would be and, toby, you can interrupt me anytime what would happen would be over the months, over the months or for, or a homicide, and my wife Karen will look at me and she go, you're going to be busy this morning I said, yep, here we go. So I go into work. The first thing I do is I get a phone call from my special agent in charge on this on the floor above me and he goes Sam, sam, can you come up? Yes, sir, so I go up, he goes, did you?
Speaker 1:see the news.
Speaker 2:Yes, sir, run a records check and see if we were ever notified about this individual being illegal. So I have my group supervisor run the record check. It's an inch thick of arrests that this individual was involved in criminal acts that he was involved in and released, never charged. We were never notified and I said to my boss, especially as in charge what's going on here Was this due to the sanctuary city policy of the local police that was in Seattle.
Speaker 2:Yes, maybe I should. You think I should touch on what a sanctuary city is, because when I first started in Seattle I really didn't even have an understanding of it until I was in management dealing with it. Do you want me to backtrack?
Speaker 3:Let's go to that, but finish, if you don't mind finish the story on your sack and what he wanted you to do with this guy's background and what the outcome was.
Speaker 2:OK. So I would say, lee, we need to let these people, the citizens of Seattle and Washington state, know what's going on. No, not our job, and then it is our job. So you can see, the confrontation was starting between my supervisor and me being second in charge for the state of Washington. So no one says anything.
Speaker 2:So this individual goes through the court system, the feds never notified, never notified, get sentenced to a state prison for whatever crime and then eventually gets let out. Because you may or may not know, the public may or may not know that sanctuary cities and states do not notify the federal government when an illegal alien is released from prison or jail period. And you shake your head, you go, wait a second. So what happened to this guy? He served three years, five years, seven years, whatever his sentence is, walks out of prison, goes right back to Seattle, lives happily ever after, until he commits what Another crime, and maybe or maybe not. We as feds will be advised, usually not, because sometimes it's a misdemeanor, drunk driving, assault and battery. So his rap sheet, his criminal record, keeps growing and growing. And then what happens? He commits another felony and now all of a sudden people are outraged how can this happen. And that's when I wanted my management team to back me, go before the press and say this is why it happens.
Speaker 2:Because you're in a sanctuary city, you're in a sanctuary state. The federal government never gets involved. Because we don't get involved? Because management, if you're in a sanctuary city or sanctuary state, don't want to ruffle the feathers of the politicians that authorize these illegal sanctuary policies. They're illegal. There's no such thing as a sanctuary policy. Regarding immigration, let me just repeat that there is no policy or law that clarifies and authorizes sanctuary cities, states and counties, usually a sanctuary county or city, federal or state. It's usually a wink, it's not even in writing. It's a wink. It's an understanding between the city mayor, between the city manager, the police chief, the sheriff, the prosecutors, that hey, we'll just handle this within our little community or within our state.
Speaker 2:Don't bring in the feds, because we believe that no matter if you're illegal or legal, if you're illegal, you get a different set of rules that you have to abide by and live by, which is none, and I try to explain that when I did my public speaking and people look at me like what are you talking about? Well, I have examples, hundreds, hundreds of examples of illegal aliens not only committing crimes, horrific crimes, but killing police officers, state troopers and sheriffs. I've done exhaustive research on it. It's all documented. I can go to just what a month ago, ironically but sadly, a Washington state trooper killed by an illegal alien who had a arrest record of a mile long but was protected under quote unquote sanctuary policies. The feds were never notified. And again, when I was doing public speaking, people look at me and on my PowerPoint presentation I had to pull up the slide of the horrific crime, just horrific. And I'm not going to take the time because I can talk for hours. We have the one in San Francisco. The poor girl was shot by an illegal alien at the pier. You probably remember that there was outrage just a few months ago. Just a few months ago in Atlanta, the girl was jogging and everybody was on national news and and and talking about how we have to crack down. And I'm saying to us, wait a second, back in 2007, 2008, and 2009. I'm screaming, I'm raising every flag I can.
Speaker 2:Of course, I was held back because of my position. I had to be very careful because, honestly, I didn't want to lose my 26-year pension. So if my boss says, keep your mouth shut, I kept my mouth shut. In fact, it got so bad in Seattle they had to hire it was the first time a public information officer, because the special agent in charge couldn't take the heat anymore. The news was calling to find out the background on an individual who was arrested for murder, who was arrested for rape of a little girl, who was arrested for arson. My manager couldn't say oh well, we were never notified. He's been arrested 17 times in Seattle and King County, which is in, which is the county for Seattle, and we were never notified. No, no, no, you can't say that. You can't say that. So the public never knows that. Number one, he was an illegal alien. And number two, his arrest record was 17 pages because nobody would ever say anything. And that went on and on and on. So everything went to the public information officer. Of course, she was trained to beat around the subject spin. It never mentioned that he was an illegal alien in this country for the past seven years in this country committing crimes that now led to the rape, murder, homicide, of why it's now brought to the attention of the public and again, as a manager, it was getting more frustrating, more frustrating. It was getting more frustrating, more frustrating.
Speaker 2:And there was one case in particular but there's one case in particular that I have in my presentation where an illegal alien was dating a girl that worked at the college in Seattle, washington State, I believe it was, and he went into where she works at the college and shot her, killed her and of course, we get called about it. Do the background on him. Well, he was an illegal out of Europe. He's been living in the country for years and years. He was an illegal, came in illegally and he murdered his girlfriend at the time. Well, what we came to find out was four hours prior he was arrested by Seattle police for drunk driving and they let him go. Now, if it wasn't a sanctuary city and sanctuary policies, we, the feds, would have been notified that we apprehended so-and-so, we believe, is an illegal alien from Europe and we would have went and put him in handcuffs and initiated deportation, but we were never notified. You got a death on your hands and again, ironically and sadly, I gave a presentation.
Speaker 2:And sadly, I gave a presentation. I had about a month, three weeks, left before I retired, january 1st 2009. So my supervisor, the special agent in charge, calls me in and said Sam, I want you to go down and give a speech on immigration to about 150 law enforcement people. And I looked at him Again one of the stories I'll never forget. I looked at him and says you want me to go Because, as you can tell, I might be kind of vocal. I says you want me to go. He says, yeah, go, give him a piece of your mind. Okay, you want me to do that. I'll do it. I had three weeks left. What are they going to do to me? So I go down and there's about 150 law enforcement people, there are some people from the public and I gave a little presentation on the spirit of sanctuary cities and policies and the damage that they're doing to Seattle and the state of Washington.
Speaker 2:And there was two troopers Washington State troopers and they had the scrambled eggs gold on their hats and they were on the desk and looking back on it. Maybe I should have done this. Maybe I shouldn't have done it, I don't care. So I said to the troopers. I said let me ask you a question. I said we've got two Washington State troopers here me. Well enough, I can be a little sarcastic. I try to know the answer before I ask a question. I said you guys patrol the highways in Washington State 24 hours a day, seven days a week, correct? That's correct. I said can you answer me this question?
Speaker 2:Why is it that off of Interstate 5, going south of Tacoma, there's a military base? If you make the exit and you turn right, you're at the military base. I'm sorry. If you turn left, you're at the military base. You're at the point of no return. You've got to go to the gate. Well, at the gate you got military police. If you make a right, you go to the McDonalddonald's, you go to burger king, you go to kentucky fried chicken.
Speaker 2:Well, what happens is people that can't speak english and can't read english signs they're going to. I mean, they're coming up to washington because it's a sanctuary state. They get free license driver license. They get free health care. They get free. They get free license driver license. They get free health care. They get free this, they get free that. So they were all coming to Washington State, which they still do, and they make a right and if they can read the signs, they get their fast food. And there's seven, eight of them in a car, eight of them in a car. If they make a left, they're at the military base.
Speaker 2:Well, lo and behold, they pull up to the military base. The military police stops them. Driver's license no driver's license. Where are you from? We're from Mexico. They call the feds two, three times a week and we run down and we pick them up, no problem, and we do what we have to do. And we do what we have to do.
Speaker 2:Why is it that the Washington State Patrol in over four and a half years, 24 hours a day? We have a policy that we don't interfere with illegal aliens. And somebody in the back yelled we're sorry, we can't hear you. So he stood up and he says we have a policy, and I've got that policy in my presentation. We have a policy that we don't interfere with illegal aliens. We basically let them go. Somebody in the back goes. That's stupid. Then somebody else goes. What do you mean? Know what he did? He picked up his hat and he walked out.
Speaker 2:The one Washington State patrol officer stayed. He took a little heat and then I saw was getting out of control and I stepped in. I said well, look, that's their policy, you can't blame the trooper. And that's their policy to this day. And that brings me again to the ironic and sad. Three weeks ago, a month ago I've lost track, to be honest Washington State trooper shot and killed by an illegal alien. Maybe again, I don't know, I mean, I'm an expert in some areas of law enforcement and criminal justice but maybe someone at the Washington State Patrol should say you know, let's look at our illegal sanctuary policies and maybe we should arrest or detain or notify the feds. But what happened? Nothing. The policy to this day is put blinders on.
Speaker 2:And I gave the example that if you're a US citizen and you get stopped without a driver's license, you can bet your butt you're going to be pulled in, you're going to be given a summons, they're going to run a criminal record check on you If you're an illegal alien in the state of Washington. Have a good day, sir, drive careful. Sounds, unbelievable Sounds like come on, sam. No, sam's telling exactly the truth. Whether you commit arson, whether you commit a murder, whether you rape of a child, theft, larceny, you name it. If you're an illegal alien in the state of Washington, in the city of Seattle, in the county of King, hands off bye-bye.
Speaker 1:Sam, I'm like you know, for a lay person like me and I try not to watch too much news because it bums me out, but you have obviously a lot of experience with this In your perspective. In your experience like, when did this, this start? Obviously it was happening 15 years ago, but when did it start and who is everyone did? Was it one place and everyone's following, or was it like a nationwide thing like where, where and when can we trace this craziness back to? Can I jump in, jeff?
Speaker 3:absolutely with this. Yeah, um, sam, if you remember that, I was transferred out of the asset forfeiture group over to what we called 79th Street, which was where the immigration investigations occurred, and they transferred me because the excuse was oh, he's an ex-marshal, deputy marshal, he knows fugitives and he knows how to do this. So when I went over, we had a bunch of, let's say, agents that were there, that didn't want to be there, but we all banded together and we went through the warrants and I was amazed that people from the 80s and 90s I mean the height of Miami, with the cocaine cowboys, with Escobar and all that, plus the locals, the local gangs and stuff like that from another law enforcement agency like DEA, broward Sheriffs, they would get stepped back. Stepped back, meaning cuffed, and taken to that jurisdiction.
Speaker 3:But immigration never picked them up. There was a huge, there were piles of warrants, so we went through them and we started making arrests. You know, we would go out at the last known addresses. We were starting to get the technology through the internet and we were able to find where they were. So this is like almost 20 years later, these people had been roaming the streets of Miami and we started making arrests and that so these policies in certain places were in place even in the eighties.
Speaker 3:Yeah, yeah, there was some. Well, no, it was just a lot of negligence. There was no policy but nobody thought, hey, let's call immigration and do this. So.
Speaker 1:So when did the policy start? Like I, we got. We got to be able to nail that down to someone. It's a good question.
Speaker 2:Jeff, let me, let me let me, if I can, just to what Toby said. And then I want to add something. We used to when I say we Homeland Security in Seattle, my agents would go into the county jails, would go into the state jail and review the records of inmates to identify those that are illegal. So when they get released at least we know, the feds know that they're going to be released because of our own investigation the state, the county and the city corrections believe it or not forbid federal agents to go into their quote unquote jails to ascertain that information. Now you're saying any person listening to this is saying wait a second. This guy's telling me that the federal government, federal agents, cannot go into jails and review the records to identify illegal aliens. Yes, let me make it clear. Yes, that's what I'm telling you then and that's what I'm telling you now. Now to answer your question, just briefly, if I can, I just want to highlight one or two things about sanctuary cities and policies, because when, again, I was giving my public speaking, the first question I ask is who knows what a sanctuary city, state, county policy is churches has to do with? When people are released from prison, they go live in a sanctuary to get like a halfway house. So they had no clue. So I give a little background and I'll just go through one or two things.
Speaker 2:Generally, sanctuary policies instruct city employees not to notify the federal government of the state of Washington has may have been passed by a local government body in the form of a resolution, ordinance or administrative action, general or special orders or department policies. Most of them are department policies. When you see a sheriff on TV talking about the immigration and talking about this, talking about that, the first thing I want to know is do you believe in sanctuary policies In Seattle? 99% of them might not believe in it, but that's the policy. Now, for me, I can never be a sheriff knowing that I'm handcuffed, handcuffing my officers from doing their job to protect the people of that community. However, some sheriffs many sheriffs care less. They get a paycheck. Hey city manager, mayor, you don't want me to do anything with illegal Plans that commit crimes. Ie call the feds, I won't call the feds.
Speaker 2:Formal sanctuary cities are the easiest to identify because they put their sanctuary policies in writing, which become subject to public records requests. That's how I found all these out, not because I was a federal agent because I did a Freedom of Information Act to get their policy, and they're proud of it. The state of Washington is proud of it, the city of Seattle is proud of it, King County of it. The city of Seattle is proud of it, king County, washington is proud of it.
Speaker 2:An informal sanctuary policy is a policy that does not exist on paper and this is where I mentioned prior about the little wink of an eye but nonetheless is carried out by government workers, administrative service or safety. An informal sanctuary policy is more difficult to document since no public record exists. Again, it's a little wink of the eye. The mayor tells the chief, the chief tells the sergeant, the sergeant tells his officers. There's no policy, there's nothing you can put your hand on, but there's this understanding that we don't do anything with, again, illegal aliens, even if they commit crime, just process them, let them go to court. They either get fines, they'll get maybe county jail time. If it's less than 365 days, they might go to state prison. They come out and they live happily.
Speaker 2:Ever after Sanctuary policies, official or otherwise, result in safe havens for illegal aliens and potential terrorists. And I'm going to get to that before we end. And this goes back to bear with me to 1996. Sanctuary policies allow criminal aliens to avoid deportation simply because they prevent local police from reporting alien criminals to ICE. I mean, it's pretty clear, it's pretty direct. Basically, what I'm trying to say is, if you're an illegal alien in a sanctuary city, whether it's a written policy, whether it's a wink of an eye, you're protected. You're protected by any kind of court action or federal action to get you arrested and out of the country, and that's why we have the problem today. Now, if I can, just one thing so I retired in January 2009, and that's what I was up against, and I authorized a worksite enforcement investigation. Toby, I'm sure you're familiar with that, perhaps the public is not, but Toby, I don't recall. I left in 2009. Do you recall any worksite enforcement actions since 2009?
Speaker 3:Anywhere. No, and right after I retired in 2006, they started doing those kind of policies and the HSIO office— I'm going to tell you why Go ahead.
Speaker 2:I'm going to tell you why. Go ahead. I'm going to tell you why You're exactly right. Again, all documented, in fact, in my website I have a website, ice under firecom. In my website I have a Congressman back in 2009 or 2008. Had to be 2008. No-transcript and headquarters is opening an investigation on the agents that arrested the illegal aliens.
Speaker 2:Now, now, and this is one of the reasons I retired, so I get called in because the Congress women in Seattle was calling my boss demanding an explanation of why I and it was me, probably for my agents, to go to this work site. And we did all the investigation. We knew, we knew the one thing about the feds when we investigate you, we know when you go to the bathroom, when you go to sleep, we know everything. We don't go in blind, unfortunately, like a police officer doesn't know what he's going to, what he's going to confront. We, we, we have a good idea. So we arrested the 25 illegal aliens. I'm kind of you know. So we arrested the 25 illegal aliens. I'm kind of you know. No one got hurt, went very well, no problem. Next thing, I'm getting called in.
Speaker 2:Why did I do what I did? Why did I authorize it? And again, I had the final say because I was management and I'm like what are you talking about? We arrested 25 illegals out of the business. And well, I'm getting my supervisor, the manager. I'm getting phone calls from the Congress people they want to know why you did this.
Speaker 2:Because at the time it was President Obama. He ordered no worksite enforcement operations. They were to cease. I didn't know that. I joined my job. The next thing I know, quote unquote, they're sending the flying squad, which is a commonly known phrase for the feds, their headquarters, internal affairs agents. They're flying them in from Washington DC to investigate me why I violated a presidential order of not doing any worksite enforcement. Hard to believe. Hard to believe, but again all documented by this congressman who, openly, he discusses it.
Speaker 2:Well, that was me. So that's when I realized 26 years federal service pension. They're coming after me. What do you do? Some people would say I'd fight. I've been fighting the last, oh, six years, seven years, fighting the immigration battle and I didn't have any more fight. I admit it, I had no more fight. So now, if we can, um, I retired 2009.
Speaker 2:Let's look where we're at now with immigration, because it's all this talk, uh, I I kind of get a kick out of when I turn on the tv and everyone's at the desk with their hands folded and they all have their tie on and they're very trim and proper. Half of them never even met an illegal alien. The other half don't even really know what a sanctuary city or a sanctuary policy is. But they're experts. And I sit there and I just get so frustrated and aggravated because of the lives that are being lost. And, for instance, let's just talk about current Migrants from China. This is as of a week ago, fiscal year 2024. Okay, that goes from October to October. So from October to March 2024, 41,970. Fiscal year 23, 52,700. Fiscal year 2022, 27,000, 21,000, 23,000.
Speaker 2:Customs Border Patrol is estimating that there's over 10 million illegal aliens currently in the United States. I was only in Seattle, I was only in Washington State. We now have 10 million plus, according to Customs and Border Patrol, known gotaways. According to Customs and Border Patrol, for fiscal year 2024, again October to May 8th just a few days ago, may 8th approximately 175,000 gotaways, ones that Customs and Border Patrol don't even know about. They know about the 10 million plus, but those 10 million plus never a background investigation. They don't even know if their real name is what it is.
Speaker 2:And just one other thing that kind of upsets me. It shows you how law enforcement kind of buys into this. I never bought into the political game, but it's obvious to me and I might be wrong, but I'll make the assumption, and I'll make the assertion, that Customs and Border Patrol is now in bed with the politicians, is now in bed with the politicians. Why do I say that? Clearly, you watch TV. They show the president of the Border Patrol Union on TV. He talks about all the statistics that I just gave you.
Speaker 2:And what does he say? We need more agents. We need more agents. No, he needs more agents for his union. That's what he needs. He doesn't need more agents on the front line. You've got all the agents on the front line you need. Take the handcuffs off of them. Put them on the front line. Give them the authority to enforce federal immigration laws. Stop having the agents hand out the bologna sandwiches and the bottles of water and taking them on a bus to an airport, putting them on a plane, sending them to all these different cities for them to just roam loose. Them to just roam loose. You don't need more agents, you need enforcement policies. Take the handcuffs off the current agents. You got on the border, but no, what do they complain about? We need more agents. We need more agents, more agents to do what You're not allowed to do, anything. But yet I'm the bad guy, because I don't go along with hiring more agents, hiring more people to support the mission.
Speaker 2:There is no immigration every day on the news and as a prediction, unfortunately, I think one day we're going to wake up and out of those 10 million plus that Customs and Border Patrol has no knowledge about, there's going to be a terroristic attack. I know you can't say that because we've got Homeland Security, we've got the FBI, we've got the CIA, we've got all kinds of agencies going to ensure that. It's a very good question. I get asked that when I did give my presentations and I'll tell you, in my view, where we go from here is holding people responsible, no-transcript you tell me how that can happen. Someone needs to be responsible. The sheriff, sue the mayor, bring up these public information documents describing what a sanctuary city policy is, the hands off, and let them justify.
Speaker 2:As I'm raising the question, how can this happen? Like you said, jeff, how can this happen? It's going to stop when all of a sudden, the sheriff goes holy smokes, they're suing me for $2.3 million. Holy smokes, the sheriff, the chief of police gets called in. The police officer gets called in. Why did you let this guy go? Well, we have a sanctuary city policy. What you knew? He has a rap sheet because you can easily run it. You knew he has a criminal history and the next day he goes out and murders this person. You don't think he's responsible. I do, and that's how I think you're going to see it turn around.
Speaker 2:Other than that, politics, especially at the federal level, as high as the president level, congress, the Senate, they know about sanctuary cities. They know about sanctuary policies. And one other thing the federal government gives homeland security grants to all these cities. Explain to me please, if you can I'll ask you the question, because I have no answer. How can the federal government give federal funds for Homeland Security enforcement, knowing that that city, county and state is a sanctuary county, city or state, give them billions of dollars to enforce Homeland Security federal rules? When they don't do it, cut the funding. It's real simple. You're a sanctuary state, washington. You're a sanctuary state, new Jersey. You're a sanctuary state, california. You know that $13.2 billion we're going to give you for Homeland Security enforcement. It's canceled. Watch how quick it turns around. But until that happens, jeff Toby, I have no answer and that's why, again, sadly, I left, because I didn't have an answer to give to my agents and I'm not going to handcuff my agents. They're looking at me, they're doing their background.
Speaker 2:Gang members we arrested 52 gang members, toby. You know the MS-13s, the SIRs, bad of the bad, badasses, all tatted up. We arrested 52 of them. I believe Could have been 50. All tatted up. We arrested 52 of them. I believe Could have been 50. Again, I got called in because they wanted to know the rap sheet, the criminal history of all of them. Well, again, don't hold me to the exact number. Maybe 30 of them were badasses. Prior rap sheet badasses, the bad of the bad. They'll cut you up by looking at you. The other 20 called them.
Speaker 2:What was the phrase we used? Not come alongs. There was a phrase we used they were in the apartment or they were in the house. Well, they were illegal. So we put handcuffs on. Right, they're illegals, they're not gang members, but they're associated with gang members. But they were not, in all honesty, identified as gang members, but they were illegal.
Speaker 2:We arrested everybody. I get called in, I get my ass chewed for making the arrest because they were not quote unquote gang members, they were only illegals hanging out in gang member houses or apartments. And my manager had to go on a Spanish right. But my manager again, hard to believe, it's all documented. My manager had to go on the Spanish radio station in Seattle with the chief of police from Seattle, and that's another story, gil Karakoski, which you can talk forever on him. He went with the chief of police in Seattle on the Spanish radio station to what Apologize for what his agents did and what the police officers assisted the federal agents in doing. Hard to believe, real quick about Gil Karakoski. Since I'm on a roll, I think, toby, you know the fine gentleman.
Speaker 3:Yeah, I know, I know Gil, he was uh not personally, but he was the. He was an officer in um st pete started out st pete, florida well, you know his background, sam, so he rose okay. So drugs are gill karakoski was.
Speaker 2:Gill karakoski was the chief of police in seattle. When I got there, my first mission was sam, go over, introduce yourself, because I was on the law enforcement end of it. Go over, introduce yourself. Let them know that whatever we can do to help them, blah, blah, blah. I met the manager. We had a nice conversation and I told them look, I've got a lot of experience. Seattle is a beautiful city. I don't want to see anything happen to it. We're here to help you. The federal government's here to help you, and in this case, we seriously were. I had 50 agents, we were ready to do whatever we had to do, and we shake hands Two days later is when the chief puts out this memo do not cooperate with the feds.
Speaker 2:This memo do not cooperate with the feds anyway. So uh, so uh. Gil karakoski gets promoted to the drug czar, federal drug czar by president obama, which is great, you know and he leaves city of seattle and I'm saying so well, he's gone. So hopefully the next chief will adjust, change some of these policies. Of course he didn't, because city management didn't allow him to. So he didn't. No problem, I'll do what I got to do to get by. So Gil Karakoski's gone. Drugs are. God bless him, that's the end of the story.
Speaker 2:All of a sudden he becomes appointed director of customss and Border Patrol under President Obama. Wait a second, now let me just backtrack. This is the individual who was chief of police in the city of Seattle that forbid his officers to cooperate with the federal government in federal law enforcement. Now you put him in charge of Customs and Border Patrol for the entire country. What policies do you think he incorporated? And that's why the Border Patrol Union did an announcement where they refused to back him. They wanted his recall and I've got all those documents because his policy was hands off of illegals.
Speaker 2:Well, wait a second. What does Customs and Border Patrol do? They arrest and apprehend illegal criminal aliens. Your boss is telling you no, don't do that. Don't do that, just lay low. So again, jeff, to answer your question, I have no answer. I have no answer. I've got the expertise, but no one wants to hear what needs to be done. You need to do away with sanctuary policies. In order to do away with sanctuary policies, hit either individuals in the pocket or hit the state, county, cities in their pocket. You fund them from Homeland Security. Then you might see something Other than that. It's all talk.
Speaker 1:So real quick, um do you know off the top of your head if there's ever been like a successful, um you know, civil trial from a victim of one of these crimes to, um you know, either a, an officer or a chief or a politician, like to date no, I don't, and that's and that's a that's another excellent question.
Speaker 2:I know and again this goes back a couple of years that poor girl that was shot. She was with her father in San Francisco. It was an illegal, he had a gun and he went to trial in San Francisco and he was found not guilty of because he accidentally pulled the trigger and shot her in the head and then he was subsequently deported. But I don't know whether that family did anything. The one in atlanta I I I seriously considered reaching out to the attorney and expressing my views months ago. It was an outcry outcry, jeff.
Speaker 2:In my presentation I go back to 2009, before of horrific murder, homicide cases that are equal to or worse than the Atlanta one. A poor lady walking her daughter from ballet class comes out of the ballet school. Both get hit by an illegal alien drunk driver, both killed. I can go. Police officers, police officers killed. I got a video of a police officer pulling over a car and the illegals First thing they do is jump out and start shooting at the trooper. Luckily he survived, but it was all on video camera. And it goes on and on and on until tomorrow, until next week.
Speaker 2:There's going to be another horrific if the word gets out that it was, usually it's covered up. I go into great detail and again we don't have the time. I go into great detail where I would contact news stations or newspapers because they put in, for instance and I'm just using a name Jose Gonzalez Rodriguez. So they talk about his criminal history, they talk about the murder he did, but there's no status as far as his alien status. And I was just curious. I mean it should be public information. I'd like to know, you know, if a Russian commits a crime in the United States, if a Russian commits a crime in the United States, a Russian citizen, if somebody from New York commits a crime in Florida a New York citizen traveled to Florida. I just want to know where this gentleman's from. Jeff, I've got it all and Toby, I've got it all documented. You know what response I get back from either the news station or the reporter that reported the story. We're not interested in that. We're not interested in that. You want to know why? Because 99% of them are from sanctuary cities, counties and states and their editors tell them don't worry about he was a Mexican or Guatemalan or whatever, don't worry about that, just report the story and let it go away until the next one, and that's what you're facing. That's what you're facing.
Speaker 2:Fortunately, florida, we don't have that issue. The governor doesn't allow it. There is no sanctuary to my knowledge. Toby, you might know there is no sanctuary policies written or a wink of the eye. You commit a crime in the state of Florida, no matter who you are. You're going to go through the criminal justice system and if you're not here in the country legally, you will be prosecuted by the feds period Period.
Speaker 2:But yet I can talk about Washington. I can talk about Washington state. I can talk about California. Don't even get me going with Oregon, because some of my responsibility was in Portland. I served in Portland for a couple of weeks when the special agent in charge was out. I know all about Portland. I know all about California.
Speaker 2:You know Texas. You got Austin. Texas doesn't tolerate sanctuary cities, counties, except Austin. Austin doesn't. The governor doesn't do anything about it. I don't know. I don't know, but austin is a big sanctuary city policy, new york huge, and that's why new york has the problems they have.
Speaker 2:I don't live in new york, I I wish new york citizens the best, but when a horrific crime is committed, I I kind of, you know feel bad, have a sip of coffee and my life goes on because I realize there's nothing I can do. And that's the saddest part of ending an over 32 year career that I realized I couldn't do anything. I just, individually I couldn't do it. And to individually I couldn't do it. And to this day it's obviously you can tell, I think that it still bothers me because I don't want to see anybody killed. I don't want to see anybody killed by a drunk driver who doesn't have a license, who's been in this country for seven years, who's committed 15, 16, 17 crimes, who has gone to a state prison in a state and released, then gets behind the wheel with no driver's license, drunk, and kills a family. Yeah, it pisses me off.
Speaker 3:And this is why when Jeff and I came up with this concept of doing this kind of show. You watch the media you watch. I don't care if you're watching CNN or you're watching Fox News, msnbc, whatever the alphabet. The experts are not people like you, people who've experienced the full spectrum and your career's been tremendous. You know you've contributed to everything in law enforcement to protect and serve of our citizens.
Speaker 3:But it's good to have this on, because I was frustrated watching these so-called experts that are on there in criminal justice and law enforcement and really they don't have the experience. A lot of them were political appointments, they came along with the right time to be appointed and I think the public is tired of seeing these kind of people on. They want to see the agents, the police officers, the inmates, the advocates, the lawyers, the prosecutors all that and sure, there's a lot of nostalgia in the 1890s, but you brought it up to date. There's issues now that are relevant, that need to be solved with the sanctuary city, not just lining up border patrol agents along the border, but basically to get them to be able to do their job again, and I want to thank you, sam, for coming out on this and I'm proud to have you a friend for over 30, 33 years or so. Yeah, 33 years and I enjoy it.
Speaker 2:It's been a while. But you know, toby, I just want to add, just because it's in my nature I don't know if you even know I traveled to Krakow, poland, and I went to the Holocaust. And I went to the Holocaust, I went to Auschwitz. I spent 14, 15 hours, the toughest part of my life. Why did I go? Because even back then and now it's magnified, but even back then there's the people that say, oh, that never happened, this didn't happen, that didn't happen. I wanted to go see it myself and I did.
Speaker 2:Okay, I lived and I saw what transpired in Auschwitz. Okay, I lived and I experienced illegal aliens, what they're doing to this country, what they're doing to American families. No one could take that away from me. Any someone can criticize me. Oh, I don't know what I'm talking about. I do know what I'm talking about. If I say something about the Nazis and about Auschwitz, I can now say to them have you ever been there? And I'll bet you 100 percent, no, I've never been there, but I read about it. Well, I've been there. I experienced it. The same way, I experienced the status of what's going on with the crime in this country and again, I'll leave you with this someday, someday, sadly. We're going to look back on this. We're going to look back on other things I've said. If there's a terrorist attack, this country is going to be really, really hurting and I and I hate to end that way, but it's the way I feel. The facts, the circumstances dictate that's coming.
Speaker 3:Okay, I hope you're wrong, but it seems that the direction of where we're going with that situation.
Speaker 2:When you watch me, when you get 41,000 year to date of migrants from China that we have no idea their true background. They don't even give the real names 41,970 from China. If you think China is our friend, well then I don't know what to say. I don't know what to say, so that's where we're at. That's my view. I wish I had a better story to tell, but I'm telling the facts, the circumstances and where we're headed, sadly.
Speaker 3:No, I appreciate it. I think the viewers will appreciate your point of view and it's been my honor and privilege and I know Jeff feels the same way to have you come forth with your stories and your opinions and all that, and I'll be seeing you soon. Sam works us.
Speaker 2:Okay, do I have a quick second to tell? Probably a good story? Sure, or a very interesting story.
Speaker 1:Let's end on a good note.
Speaker 2:So November 26, 2008,. My agents come in to me and go 2008,. My agents come in to me and go, hey, we've got a CI that somebody's selling Hitler's bookmark. I'm like what, what are you talking about? So we do some investigating and sure enough, his longtime mistress, eva Braun, gave Hitler an 18-carat gold bookmark and on it it wrote my Adolf, don't worry, only an inconvenience that will not break your certainty of victory. My love for you will be eternal, as our will be in 1943.
Speaker 2:So, like I said, we do some research on this. And sure enough, it was stolen from an auction gallery in Madrid about six years prior. So I authorized my agents to get the front money. They wanted $100,000 for it. So we meet him, my agents meet him at starbucks. Sure enough, the guy presents this gold bookmark that was used by hitler.
Speaker 2:And, uh, anyway, uh, we recovered it, arrested the, the subject who stole it or who was involved in the theft, and we returned it back to Madrid. And of course, they were thrilled to death. But I actually held in my hands something that Hitler held in his hands and it goes to show you the work that we did back then, not with immigration, but, as you know, toby drugs, child pornography what's the word I'm looking for? Trademark violations, currency violations. Unfortunately we don't hear anything about those anymore. All we hear about is the border and I don't know who's actually doing these other types of investigations. But there I mean, not too many people can say they actually held something that Hitler had in his possession, kind of interesting, and I got pictures of it and anyway.
Speaker 1:So that's, we did good on that not only held, but that must have been one of his like prized possessions come as a gift from Ava you know like that's.
Speaker 2:I'll tell you, jeff. Uh, I don't get too emotional over things, but when I held that emotional over things, but when I held that, it was powerful. It was only a bookmark, it was a gold bookmark with that writing inscribed on it, but to hold something that that animal possessed, it was to this day, it was an overwhelming experience. And again, it was just a bookmark, but it had so much more meaning.
Speaker 1:Exactly just a bookmark, exactly the meaning of evil thank you, sam, appreciate you coming on, thanks yes, thanks for, and um, I know we've got like a lot more we can thank you so maybe, uh, maybe in the future, especially if we've got some more sanctuary city stuff pop up, we can get you back. I appreciate it and if anyone has any questions for sam, maybe if we get a bunch we'll have you back on and have you answer some stuff.
Speaker 2:I appreciate it. I look forward to hearing all the other presenters. Thank you, guys, very, very much.
Speaker 3:Take care, take care, buddy.