Speaker 1: 0:00

I have the pleasure of having retired New York City police legend Detective Ralph Friedman today on the podcast. It's a real privilege to have him on. This is a person who served during the height of high crime in New York from 1970 to 1984. He was retired I'll let him tell you about that has over 2,000 arrests, has many medals, more than any other person that worked street work in New York City. And, as you know, this podcast is not about politics within law enforcement. We're not going to have people that were appointed politically to high-level chief positions and special agent in charge with no experience and to on the streets, to advocates, to real-life prosecutors that tried cases that were important and defense counsel who entered into cooperation agreements. So I'm very honored to have him on and I say that because I started in 1976 as a patrol. They called them patrolmen back then. We had badges. We called the women in my department matrons, so you can see how it was and Ralph had a wonderful career in New York. We're going to have a lot of people from New York City on that work there. I can just give you a couple hints. We're going to have a New Jersey trooper who worked the Colombian cases. We're going to have other Pete Thron will be on the show, who wrote my book, and we're going to have a lot of individuals associated with that error, which to me, was the high point of law enforcement. Myself I became interested. I watched Kojak all the time and that was my main thing, and I thought you could solve crime in an hour. Just like everybody that doesn't know that, you were able to go out and kick somebody's ass because they were bothering you and they were violating the law, of course, number one. So it's a real pleasure.

Speaker 1: 2:38

Ralph has done a lot of things. He's written several books. He's been in Street Justice of the Bronx. He's the creator of it, which was a featured TV series. He's on other projects. This one I love. This is my favorite Street Warrior and it chronicles what he was. He was a street warrior. He's wearing the shirt today, but, believe me, when we talk to him he'll tell you what it's like and we're going to talk about the differences today in New York as far as the rising crime rate. In my opinion, A lot of that's going to get worse because we have open borders. It's not a political statement, it's a fact. I retired from ICE as a supervisor, so I can say that, Okay, and we're going to get into it. So a real pleasure to have him join us today from New York. How are you?

Speaker 2: 3:37

Ralph, Thanks for having me. Thanks Toby and Jeff. Thank you very much. Go ahead, Jeff. Where would you like to start?

Speaker 3: 3:47

Yeah, thanks for coming on. It's a real honor, if you could. We've been kind of starting off the last couple of interviews with just kind of like some you know background stuff where you were born, what your childhood was like, what your parents were like, and then moved into how you got involved with law enforcement.

Speaker 2: 4:09

Well, I was born in the Bronx 1949. I had my whole career. I was schooled, raised, worked, you know, jobs as a kid, everything in the Bronx and I really wasn't interested in law enforcement. None of my family or friends were in law enforcement. But one night I was out with a couple of friends on a Friday night and I asked them what they were doing tomorrow morning and they mentioned they'd taken the police test and back in those years it was a walk-in test. You didn't have to register, pre-register or anything, and they were giving it in the high school that I graduated from in 1967. I graduated from clinton high school in the bronx. So it was a walk-in test and I said knock on my door, if I wake up I'll go. You know, it was like very casual type of thing. I didn't take it seriously and they knocked on my door and I I was up and I went with them, took the test, I did rather well and I got called pretty fast. I got called less than a year later but I was too young. So I was hired as a police trainee.

Speaker 2: 5:17

And I was hired as a fingerprint technician because in 1968, new York City started the rifle and shotgun registration and people had to come in voluntarily and register their lawn lawns. So I was assigned to the 44th Precinct in the West Bronx, which was a very busy house but I was allowed to only do stuff indoors and we specialized in fingerprinting and when people didn't come in I worked the telephone switchboard, did filing, took complaints if victims walked in, and I did that for like six months and then they invented 911. That was invented in June of 1968. And I went down there in police headquarters at 240 Center Street, which is now a co-op or condo building because they built 1PP a couple years later, and I worked there on the midnight shift handling calls coming in from the public and giving them to dispatches. And then when I became 21, almost to the day two years later, I became a patrolman which Toby touched on. We were called patrolmen back then.

Speaker 2: 6:32

A couple of years later they changed it to police officers and I started out in the 4-1 precinct, which is a great command to learn in. You see more stuff there in a couple of years than you do in 20 years in another precinct. It was the South Bronx, also nicknamed Fort Apache, and the guys I worked with and learned from were great and it was very tight, a lot of camaraderie, and it was a dangerous area. So we all watched each other's backs and I did about a year in uniform and then I proceeded to get into what's called the anti-crime, which they did away with I think de Blasio did away with it right before Adams came in and because they said it was too much of violence, followed that unit or something, but these were officers that were go-getters. Too much of violence followed that unit or something, but these were officers that were go-getters, looking for violent criminals.

Speaker 2: 7:31

And when you have run-ins with violent criminals, some of them are going to go sideways, you know, and you're out on the street all the time and our job was to be there during the crime.

Speaker 2: 7:46

Detectives usually investigate the case after the fact and uniforms would deter crime, but anti-crime. We didn't have computers back then or cell phones or beepers or radios, and what we did was in the precinct, someone would do like a map with pins and try to pinpoint where these crimes were occurring and what times, and you sort of get patterns and then we would stake it out. Our job was to blend in with the neighborhood and be part of the scenery and then, when something occurred, we could take action, apprehend the perpetrator and be an expert witness, because most complainants or victims are not familiar with the court system, don't know how to testify and lawyers rip them apart. And then perpetrators get to walk because of bad testimony or not proper testimony or people are scared. But as a police officer on the scene witnessing the crime, we have a better chance a very high percentage actually of putting the criminal behind bars for a specific amount of time.

Speaker 3: 8:52

Wow, that's fascinating. That reminds me of my favorite Tom Cruise movie, Minority Report, with pre-crime and all that stuff. I thought that was a complete fiction, a work of fiction, but it seems like it was actually.

Speaker 2: 9:06

I'm not familiar with that movie.

Speaker 2: 9:07

So yeah, it's blending into the neighborhood. You know, we dressed like the people dressed in the area. We wore jeans and what was popular back then was army fatigue coats, dungarees, t-shirts. We also dressed as construction workers. We put on hard hats. Work at a Con Ed site, drive a milk truck, drive a taxi camp, lay on the street as a bum.

Speaker 2: 9:32

We do anything to blend in, maybe working on a car standing there with an unmarked car that they don't know, because we took cars out. We took a lot of cars out of the pound. We used them for patrol because everybody knows the Crown Vicks and the Valaris and the cars that were typically used. But we had the luxury of taking cars out of the pound and we could put the hood up or lay under the car and watch the neighborhood or look under the hood like we're working on the carburetor or something you know, just to blend in. That was the whole thing. Blend in so when a criminal looks around he doesn't see any cops or detectives or marked or unmarked cars that are standard issue for the department and, uh, the 41st precinct.

Speaker 3: 10:15

Like I said before, a lot of camaraderie and a lot of smart, intelligent street cops there and I learned from the best wow, so so uh, so you weren't looking for anyone in particular, it was just more of a location based thing, and you'd hang out until something popped off, right.

Speaker 2: 10:32

That's correct Until I got promoted to detective. Then later on I started looking for specific people when I was investigating uh crime reports. But I had it in a way that uh the boss knew I was very active and I would go out to interview complainants and witnesses and I would still make pickup callers like I was working anti-crime. So they gave me a lot of leeway and I usually worked with anti-crime cops from the precinct, even though I was assigned to Bronx Detectives, assigned to the 5-2 Squad. I'd work with other, you know go-getter cops that would want to make arrests on the street besides their regular caseload of investigating cases of crimes that occurred already.

Speaker 3: 11:16

So was this like a blanket program for all of NYPD or was it like certain places, certain neighborhoods, it existed and then maybe not others?

Speaker 2: 11:27

Well, there's crimes all over and certain precincts are busier than others. Certain precincts are classified like shithouses or a-houses or active commands and they would get more coverage the poorer the neighborhood or the more ghetto the neighborhood is. They actually get better services than a better neighborhood because you put more police and more detectives there to handle the crime that's going on. And back in the 70s crime was pretty rampant. Drug use was really flourishing. You know, I got out right before the crack era but we dealt in the South Bronx. All you dealt with was heroin and the city tried to contain it with methadone. But that was the same thing. That was just like heroin. It was only a liquid form given to them for free. But heroin use was really bad and you know they were stripping the buildings, stripping cars, pulling burglaries, robbing people and this went on on a continual basis.

Speaker 2: 12:30

When I first started in the 41st Precinct, I mean I never was exposed to this kind of stuff, even though I grew up in the Bronx, because my whole police career was in the Bronx also, but it was only a few miles away. I thought it was in another country. You know, I saw things and the disregard for human life and how some innocent victims had to live under this cloak of terror from the criminals and the shootings and the stabbings and the stuff that went on. I was never exposed to the first 20 years of my life, so this was all new to me. But I was trained very good in the academy and then working with these 401 cops. Uh, I was taught how to handle this stuff and then I just exceed, you know, excelled in it, I guess, but I enjoyed it. It was an adrenaline rush and I enjoyed taking bad guys off the street that prey on the innocent.

Speaker 2: 13:25

And this program went until, like the 2010s kind of Well, when you say that program you mean like the anti-crime program.

Speaker 3: 13:33

Yes, yes.

Speaker 2: 13:35

Anti-crime was only disbanded a few years ago.

Speaker 3: 13:37

Yeah.

Speaker 2: 13:38

I think towards the end, if I'm correct, towards the end of the de Blasio era. Okay, yes.

Speaker 2: 13:44

You know, because they felt there were too many shootings. But they don't understand that these are the best of the best cops and you're dealing with violent criminals and it's really the criminals that make the decisions, not the police officers. You know, if we tell them they're under arrest, if they put their hands behind their back, we cuff them, take them in. That's case closed. But you get criminals that want to fight you, they want to stab you, they want to shoot at you. So they make the decision. If they start shooting, a police officer has no choice but to fire back to protect other civilians, his partner and his own life. And if they want to fight by hands, they make the decision. Believe me, cops don't go out there wanting to shoot people or hurt people or fight with people, and they don't want to get stabbed or shot or killed either, you know, but the criminals make the decisions on how they're going to react.

Speaker 3: 14:38

Do you have any like number one? Craziest story of the pre-crime era.

Speaker 1: 14:45

We'll extend this five hours today, John At least. Well, I have a lot of stories.

Speaker 3: 14:51

But like anything that's like the craziest like by far, you know, or a whole thing.

Speaker 1: 14:57

That's like what do you want to put on the Sunday, you know, yeah.

Speaker 3: 15:02

I mean, I'm just curious about what you think is the craziest.

Speaker 2: 15:05

Okay, I'll start off with. Well, I've been involved in 15 shootings 13 with people and two times I had to shoot to stop an attack dog, which is, I think it's way over the average amount of shooting. Most cops could go through their career without firing their weapon, but I did have to shoot eight perpetrators, killing four of them. I'll start off telling you one of the more outstanding stories. Me and my partner we had to do a day shift because we got called to court and stuff. So we were finishing near the end of our tour and we wound up seeing a purse snatch. So we chased the perpetrator and we caught him. And we wound up seeing a purse snatch. So we chased the perpetrator and we caught him and we had to complain and we went into the precinct to process the arrest and while we were there it wound up extending past our tour, which was ending at four o'clock.

Speaker 2: 15:59

So my partner went home, I took the arrest and I'm doing the paperwork and processing the prisoner and one of my CIs, a confidential informant, comes into the precinct, says he wants to talk to me and he starts telling me that there's this bad guy in the neighborhood that wants to sell a gun. So he says and the deal's going down this afternoon, like in an hour. So I go to my boss, sergeant Cantor, and I tell him what we got going. And then my partner went home already it was the end of the shift and I'd like to follow up on this case because it's a gun sale. So he says no problem. So he says no problem, he'll be my partner and we'll formulate a plan with the CI to take down this gun deal.

Speaker 2: 16:51

So we formulate a plan that he's going to go to the building and he'll have to buy money and he's going to go up to the roof to meet the guy. We're going to go down the block and this was a block that we already knew and all the roofs were connected and the only thing that separated the buildings were like small parapets, like you know, like two to three feet high, and all the roofs were connected. So we could go down the block, go up on the roof, and we'd be pretty far enough away from the guy, but we could see him. You know, see the transaction. So he goes in the building, he goes up to the roof to meet him, and we got them under observation right and right away.

Speaker 2: 17:33

We see there's a couple of things wrong. First we get up there and there's another two perpetrators. We expected one, one gun dealer. Now there's two. Next thing we know, instead of a hand gun which the CI was going to get possession of, and then we were going to move in and make the arrest because we figured it's in safer hands with the CI. But what happened was the guy. It wasn't a handgun, it was a hunting rifle a 30-30 hunting rifle.

Speaker 2: 18:05

So that sort of changed things. So we were waiting for the CI to get possession of it and then we would go in. Then the whole thing went sideways because the perpetrator turned on the roof and used the ledge as a support and started firing off the roof to show the CI the gun worked. So he was now became a sniper in the neighborhood right and he's letting off shots. So now we have no choice but to blow our cover, jump up, run towards him screaming police freeze, right, and we both had our guns out and the guy with the rifle turns on us and fires around. We open up and we shoot the guy. I think my sergeant, we both hit the guy and he went down. The other guy runs away and he runs behind like what looks like. I think it's called a kiosk, but it looks like a chimney coming out of the roof of the building. You know it might've been an incinerator system or something like that. Anyway, it's probably about eight or nine feet high and about three feet in square and he hides behind that.

Speaker 2: 19:16

I already emptied my gun on the first guy, so I pull out a second gun right, and I start to cautiously go around this turn to see where he is and as soon as I turn he has the knife raised above his head in a stabbing down position to stab me in the head and I tighten my finger on the trigger to shoot him. But before I could even pull the trigger I hear a shot. My partner, the sergeant, went around the other side, saw that he was going to stab me and shot him in the back Right. So he goes down and at that time my partner screams get the gun, get the gun. So I had to cross the prisoner that my partner just shot to go get the rifle. And there was a very small area between where he was laying against the kiosk to the roof ledge, probably about three or four feet. I go to cross that and the guy leaps up again with the knife. Now I fire my second gun at the second perpetrator, shoot him in the stomach, killing him right there, and I run over, get the gun, kick it away from the first perpetrator, who's alive but shot, and meanwhile the CI. He was smart enough to hit the deck but shot. Meanwhile the CI, he was smart enough to hit the deck.

Speaker 2: 20:29

Now calls are going in from all over, from 9-11, 9-1-1, and the police are responding. We hear the sirens, Cops are running up. We cuff up the two. The guy shot and the guy, the CI, the other perpetrator, is dead. We treat the CI like a prisoner. So the other guy doesn't know, uh, that he was the one who informed on him and, uh, that was it. You know, we got the gun that was stolen hour just hours earlier. That's why he was so hot to move it. He stole it in the neighboring precinct, in the four, six, precinct hours earlier in the burglary.

Speaker 3: 21:03

Wow, so full rooftop shootout. That's crazy.

Speaker 2: 21:07

Let me give you a little follow-up that you might find interesting. I knew this was coming.

Speaker 2: 21:13

A few months later, I meet this girl on the street, a very, very pretty Spanish girl, and we start dating, right. So we start dating, we're going out a couple of times and stuff, and now it comes to the point where she's inviting me up to a house and you know, I guess this is the point we're gonna have sex, you know. So she invites me up and I'm working at night and I'm supposed to meet her after work. Everything's set. We didn't have cell phones back then. You have to remember that, right.

Speaker 2: 21:40

So I wind up obviously making a good old days no cell phones like every day, but this was more involved carla with a gun and stuff, and there was some details of vouchering things and I was going to be tied up. So I call her through a hard line from the precinct and I tell her I can't make it tonight. You know we'll have to make it for the next night. And she gets really upset. You know we'll have to make it for the next night. And she gets really upset, you know, and saying, oh, you got plans, you got to come over. You know you got to come. I say, well, I can't, I'm tied up, I can't leave. So anyway, she keeps calling the precinct and I'm telling her I can't come and I'm like sort of happy she's so into me.

Speaker 2: 22:21

I think, right, so the next day I'm out on patrol because I had to go to court and then I'm going to come, go back to her house and we get it. We're driving around, me and my partner. We get a 10-2 forthwith, which means respond to the precinct, someone wants to talk to you. You got to come right in. Forthwith means immediately. So we drive into the precinct and I'm walking towards my boss's office on the second floor and I see two suits sitting there, right. So the boss comes out and says tells my partner go back on patrol or go out and investigate something, tells me to come in. I sit down with these two suits I figure they're internal affairs, you know and they identified themselves as a lieutenant and a detective, both from the intelligence division. And I'm a little surprised, especially since they wanted to talk to me alone, you know. I figured whatever they had to tell me could definitely be said in front of my partner, but that wasn't the case. So the guy starts off with saying are you dating a girl named Lucy?

Speaker 3: 23:24

Now my head's spinning.

Speaker 2: 23:26

How can a guy from intelligence know I'm dating a girl, lucy, and then the other one says you had a date last night with her. My head's spinning around and I'm going yeah, you know, yeah, I had a date to go over there. And they say, well, you know, she set you up to be killed. There were two or three guys in the closet with guns that were going to shoot you. And now I'm saying, like what the fuck is this all about, right? And they say, well, this girl you've been dating and everything has been setting you up this whole time and going out with you to get you up to her apartment so that she could have you assassinated. You killed her step partner eight months ago and the so they didn't arrest her. I never saw her again. I never picked up calls or called her, obviously.

Speaker 2: 24:14

But they had a CI and CIs are rated. I know Toby would know this. Cis are rated on how good they perform. Like to give you an example if they give you 10 pieces of information and 8, 9 or 10 are good, this guy is a great CI. If someone is a CI and gives you ten pieces of information and two are good, you know that's not so reliable. But their CI was a ten for ten guy. So first of all, you never want to burn and second of all, nothing was recorded and there was no witnesses. So it's a he said. She said it would definitely not be prosecutable, so they didn't lock her up and this way they wanted to keep their CI alive and everything. When I say alive, I don't mean that, but I mean, you know, as a good operative and not exposed as a CI. So that's one of the stories that stood out. I got many other than, like Toby said, I could go on for five hours.

Speaker 1: 25:11

Yeah, but not like that. We'll hear about the other girlfriends. We'll just spend the next two hours, Ralph, talking about that.

Speaker 2: 25:22

I mean I had a few others.

Speaker 3: 25:24

That won't kill me, but I can imagine some serious trust issues developing out of that situation situation.

Speaker 2: 25:36

But you know, a lot of my stories are profiled in my book Street Warrior, which is available on Amazon, and I did have a series called Street Justice, the Bronx, which was started on Discovery, then went to ID and right now presently is on Amazon Prime and I have one season six shows and they profile some of my better cases or more outstanding cases that would be. You know, the public would eat up, you know.

Speaker 3: 26:02

Yeah, I'm on it.

Speaker 2: 26:03

I'm on it tonight, Amazon Prime, but I'll tell you with all the story, all the stories I have and all the arrests and incidents I've been in. It's really because I've been very lucky to have great partners. You know, when I was in the 41st Precinct, my partner was a guy named Les Rudnick and I'm telling you, this guy is top, top cop. I was lucky to have him as a partner. And then when I went to the Detective Bureau, I had Roger Cortez I broke in with and then I had Timmy Kennedy, which was a great partner of mine, and just to show you the camaraderie we had, I mean I still talk to Lester. I got involved in a couple of things that I've done.

Speaker 2: 26:47

Sadly, roger Cortez passed away May he rest in peace. And Timmy Kennedy I talked to him and I'm retired now 41 years and I still talk to Timmy every single day. And just last week he was here. He lives in Florida. He came up here I live in the Northeast. He came up here and visited for three days and stayed at my house. But I mean, that's the kind of relationships we have.

Speaker 1: 27:09

Back then, Wow, we still have them. My friends I've known from 40 plus years and you know, you know we still go to reunions.

Speaker 2: 27:23

Every three or four years we have a 401 reunion and same guys are there and they stay in touch and they come from all over the United States to go to the reunion. The 401 was a very tight-knit precinct but I broke in with guys there that were just I mean, I can't even tell you the kind of work that I've seen them do when I was a rookie there. You know, first you start out, you're on a foot post and we didn't have units that taught you how to be a cop back then. This was, you know, all on yourself or on the people that work with you or around you. We didn't have like a training officer. They would give you a post. You spent a whole tour, the first tour, trying to find out where your post was. You know you're staring at a map. You know they didn't have Google and how to get to places. You know you walk around and you're trying to figure out the streets and I just saw police work.

Speaker 2: 28:17

These guys were my heroes and I got to work with a couple of them later on, like Stanley Gamm, a top cop, every day coming in with a felony narcotics arrest and he sadly passed away. Also Richie Biller guy brought in a gun every single day. We had a george wadeka. He went out in uniform and he went on a burglary run and he went up on top of a building and they were the two perpetrators waiting for him. It was pretty close to the precinct and they're waiting for him on top of the roof, of the way you walk out onto the roof, like the landing, and they jumped them and stabbed them in the shoulder and, with the knife sticking out of his shoulder straight up, he beat the shit out of the two of them and dragged them physically into the precinct.

Speaker 2: 29:06

I can't even tell you what this was. It was like just amazing stuff. I mean, I idolized these cops and, uh, you know, I later was had the honor to work with them and you know, my career flourished and, uh, I just looked up to them, I just wanted to be like them and that's what propelled me to keep going forward and doing what I did wow.

Speaker 3: 29:30

So when you became a detective, was there like an adjustment you? Had to make? Was there like adrenaline?

Speaker 2: 29:36

that you were used to. It was definitely going to be a change. When I went before the promotional review board, they asked me and here's where I made a mistake they said how would you feel if we promoted you to detective and you stayed in an anti-crime unit? I said, oh, that would be great. You know, I would love that and you know, obviously they put you the other way.

Speaker 2: 29:58

You know, and, to be honest, back in the early seventies, when I was making collars every single day and making quality collars, I really didn't get along with detectives because a lot of them back then would stay in the precinct, listen to the radio and if you made a good collar, they would come out and try to take your collar. They'd say, yeah, we got it, kid. I'd say you got what. You know, my cuffs are on like a racist, you know. And they wanted to take the collars and it was a different ballgame, you know. But I never gave up my collars and a few times if you ever heard the expression fist the cuffs, it wasn't only with perpetrators. Sometimes I had fist the cuffs with detectives because they wanted to take my collars and take my cuffs on and put their cuffs on. But I had a few incidents with detectives, which straightened itself out over the years. But you know, when I became a detective, you know I had to deal with a whole different mentality and a different way of doing things. But my bosses my boss gave me a few tests. He put me with a seasoned detective and wanted to see how I would handle things, you know. So some of them I describe in my book but I won't go into them too much. They're not as entertaining as some of my other stories. But he tested me. But then I showed him what I was about when I first got into the squad.

Speaker 2: 31:25

The squad there were 19 guys and they made $38 for the entire year all combined. I went up there the first year and made $160 on my own. So at first they thought I was nuts and then they understood that that's me, you know, and it was going to be hard to stop me and that's what I wanted to do and I had a way of covering myself and I made my bosses look good and they appreciated that in ways by giving me the shifts I wanted. I always wanted to work at night and they advised me not to put in for a night differential because that would be disapproved. So I just took night differential for one week and the second week I would not get paid the extra money for working nights but I didn't care about that. I wanted to work night and they let me dress the way I wanted and they knew I was always going out.

Speaker 2: 32:15

Every time I put down going out to interview witnesses or complainants that I was going to make a pickup arrest. You know I would follow suspects, I'd stop cars and my detective partners were good with this and we started making the bosses look good. So instead of going to court at eight in the morning, they would let us go to court when the DA called us at home and we would start our shift at that time. So if the case didn't get called till 11 or 12 or after lunch, then we could start our shifts later and work later, come back from court and make another arrest. So you know we made them look good. It was what we wanted to do. We felt good about it, they felt good about it, it worked for everybody and I sort of created our own niche in the detective bureau and we started what was called they were starting at that time what was called a RIP units, r-i-p, robbery Investigation Programs, and we handled robberies and guns. That was our specialty.

Speaker 1: 33:19

Okay, I'm going to ask some specific things and I think I know the answer to this. 1977, there was a big downsizing of the New York City Police Department right Due to budget cuts. How did?

Speaker 2: 33:36

everybody. No, it was actually 1975.

Speaker 1: 33:38

Okay, 75. How did you, as a working detective, compensate for that? How did you have teamwork together with everybody to overlap, obviously, the problem that you had with non-hiring and freezes that were going on?

Speaker 2: 34:02

Well, this is a very interesting story, glad you touched on that. In 1974, I was working on let me see, it was 1975, I think it was the bombing of downtown Manhattan. I forgot the name of it. It was a big case, one of the first terrorist attacks in New York where four people were killed and like 52 were injured, and I had some leads on that case and I was working on it off duty, right, I was the only one involved and the only person who knew about it was my captain of the 401. And he gave me full authority to work off duty and on duty on this case by myself, the CI, which was a very good CI, he was excellent, he was a 10 out of 10. And he gave me information and I was following the leads and stuff and we got down to the point where we knew where the bombers were going to be and I was going to arrest them.

Speaker 2: 35:12

But it was a very big event that they were having and my boss said at this point, which was Captain Tommy Walker, who was the best boss on the NYPD ever he said we had to notify other authorities within the NYPD and we need their help in taking them down and at that time there wasn't a terrorist task force or anything. It was called the Austin Explosion Squad that handled these kind of cases and there was a sergeant there that I guess you could say me and him didn't get along, but anyway he had a different way of operating than me and anyway we went to the scene. We were going to go to the scene. So what they did was they put unmarked cars following me with my CI in the car with me, and then they had unmarked cars following with an unmarked van with like emergency service units in there, everything undercover.

Speaker 2: 36:17

And while we're driving oh before that they wanted to wire up my, my ci. He wouldn't do it, he refused. So I said you could wire me, I didn't care. So they wired me up. And we're driving to this location where a wedding was taking place and there was going to be a lot of terrorists there, and especially four who did this bombing in Manhattan. And during the ride the guy, the CI, pulls out a gun and tells me he has a gun and says don't worry, ralph, I got a gun and everything. And when they heard this, this sergeant pulled the plug on the whole operation, right, and he puts on the siren pulls me over and he brings us into the precinct and accuses me of giving the CIA an illegal gun. I'm going, listen, go to the location, arrest these people, you know, but they wanted to hold me there, investigate this whole thing they held me for hours and finally I got the call.

Speaker 2: 37:24

They didn't say I was under arrest, but they were detaining me and stopping my case. I got to call my captain, tommy Walker, who came down and verified everything and got me out. At the same time, within a few couple of months, the layoffs started. They told me I'm getting laid off because I was still a police officer at the time. Right, and they said they were laying off guys who had five years or less. So I told them I have seven. I had to deal with the employee relations. So they said, well, we only have you down for five years. I said, well, I have seven. They said, well, how's that? I said, well, I have my pay stubs. I kept my pay stubs and, believe it or not, it saved my job. I was working in 68 and 69 as a police trainee, but that's a member of the NYPD and I saved these stubs that I was making. I made $4,000 a year back then in 1968 and 69. So I went down to employee relations and I showed them my pay stubs and they canceled my layoff.

Speaker 2: 38:36

And at the same minute, in the last promotion, I got promoted to detective and that was a freeze on hiring, except for a few battlefield promotions for the next seven years. And then seven years later I got promoted again to second grade detective. And then seven years later I got promoted again to second grade detective. And I was going to get promoted again in 1983 to first grade detective, but I'd already been notified that I would around June or July. They said you're getting promoted at the end of the year because there's always been big promotions around Thanksgiving and Christmas. But then I got hurt in the line of duty and they retired me Because back then there was only 115 first graders assigned to the city and a 232nd grade. The numbers were very tight and they just didn't open them up or give them out that easy. It was very, very tough because it's a very prestigious position. But I wound up getting promoted in 1975, right when they were laying people off and then the freeze came on.

Speaker 2: 39:44

But that was the first time in civil service history that civil servants got laid off, because they always said you know you make a little less money than the private field, but your job is secure and you had good benefit. Ironically I had a brother my brother's on the job. Then he got laid off. He got laid off the same day he got awarded the combat cross. He would get home and there's a letter in the mailbox saying you're laid off because he had like four years on him.

Speaker 2: 40:09

But it was a terrible time for the city. You know Lindsay was the kind of mayor that gave everybody what they wanted. You know, sanitation wanted to raise fire, wanted to raise police. He gave away the city, which everybody in civil service enjoyed. But then it backfired when they called in to balance the books and Abe Bean became the mayor, called in to balance the books and Abe Beam became the mayor and he had to balance the books and they said the only way they could do it stop borrowing from Peter to PayPal was to lay off civil servants. And that's when it happened and some guys were laid off anywhere from six months to two years. They slowly hired them back, but some guys were out for two years.

Speaker 3: 40:56

And it didn't even matter. It wasn't a merit, merit-based thing, it was just based on the amount of time you know it went on time. Seniority yeah, that doesn't seem very efficient or uh wise in the long run.

Speaker 2: 41:08

They drew a line and that was it. You know, thank god, I saved my pay stubs. It's the only thing that saved my job so there.

Speaker 3: 41:15

So they didn't have a record, though, like the the paste or they were just overlooking it. There was no computers in the 70s no, so they, they were just like whatever we're not hand records that got lost or damaged or yeah, you know whatever.

Speaker 2: 41:29

Triplicate typewriters, nothing like triplicate paperwork carbon copies yeah, no, we fished.

Speaker 3: 41:36

We fished through the garbage. If, if you're, if you're yeah, if your boss.

Speaker 1: 41:40

If your boss lost the report, you had to go into the trash and take it and, you know, make a copy of it. It was. It was insane they. They had every. Everybody that was an investigator or a police officer. They'd go through whiteout like it was toothpaste. That was the norm, whiteout carbon paper.

Speaker 2: 42:02

We had those Underwood typewriters picking peck. You know I was fast but I only used two fingers. When we look back now, when you talk about justice then and justice now, it's like everything was antiquated. Then you really went out there. All you had was your gun and your shield and your guts, your training you had when I first started. We got radios a little while later, but they didn't hardly work. We didn't have radios. We didn't have beepers, we didn't have when I first started. We got radios a little while later, but they didn't hardly work. But we didn't have radios, we didn't have beepers, we didn't have cell phones, we didn't have computers Today.

Speaker 2: 42:40

The shame of it today is that we have such better training methods, we have such better equipment and the technology and we got cops, male and female, that want to do the job and they don't let them be cops. They don't let them be cops. You know, back when I was, we don't have the backing. I mean, I know this isn't a political show or anything, but the politicians today aren't like the politicians of yesterday. They used to address us at roll call, or captain, or commanding officer or lieutenant, they would tell you go out there and get the bad guys. Take them off the street. We don't want them prying on our citizens. They encourage you to go out and make arrests, take action, and the way we were taught, it wasn't like we were doing something wrong. By today's standards, they say we were wrong, but we weren't doing things wrong. We were taught to deal with violence, with more violence. If they hit you with your hands, you hit them with your stick. They hit you with a stick, you shoot them. You shoot them. You were taught to overcome. Crush them. You don't let the criminals win at any cost. You don't let them win. As a police officer, you come out on top and there was no such thing as a retreat or um, what's the word they use now? Um, uh, de-escalate, uh, they don't use nightsticks. I mean, if you crush them in the beginning.

Speaker 2: 44:12

Just to give you an example today, how these things with the colleges and the tents and the encampments and the hate and the protests and blocking of cars, if you stop the first ones, you never get to these points. Take down the first tent, close it down and that's it, if you allow it to build up where there's going to be chaos, even if the police are called in after and then told not to use necessary force. They call it violence or police brutality. But you're taught to use necessary force to effect an arrest or for people to obey lawful orders, you know, but if you let, if you take down the first two tents and don't allow any, that's the end of your situation. If you allow 300 tents to go up now it's going to be a thing that's going to be very hard to take apart and it's going to cause more conflict.

Speaker 2: 45:07

But they let everything get out of hand. It's a different age of policing. I understand that Things are done differently and things are looked upon by the public in a whole different manner. They want to be loving and hands-off and peace, love and all that kind of stuff. But policing isn't always a clean job. Sometimes you got to get your hands dirty. You know you're enforcing the law and when you enforce the law sometimes it results in taking away a person's freedom and they don't like that and they'll fight you and then you have to fight them 100%.

Speaker 1: 45:47

My other question was and I think I know what the answer is going to be, and I think I know what the answer is going to be Body cams. What do you think about that? I know some people. I'll tell you my opinion of them real quick. You got to inform it right away, okay. What are you supposed to do? You pull somebody over and they say to you hey look, I got the man who's got the gun here, you see, and the Coke or whatever in the car. You know. You got to show the body cams recording all this and it's discoverable. It is discoverable and you're putting that potential CI at risk.

Speaker 1: 46:29

See, things like that aren't addressed because you know this at risk. See, things like that aren't addressed because you know this. You can be the toughest guy out there, but you need your CIs. I don't care if you're with NYPD, if you're with DEA or whatever. And the 10 of 10, as Ralph talked about, they make your cases okay and I refer to them in my book as the ride-alongs and those were agents that I worked with that, oh, you got a hot search warrant, you got an arrest warrant, you've got this, and you don't see them in the office. They were the guys that had two guns on in the office and they walked around and they did nothing. They did absolutely nothing, but yet when you had a situation like this, they wanted to come out. But going back to this, it's all about your sources of information that make it happen, and that's one thing they don't talk about with body camps, because it creates somebody that can cooperate like that with you not doing it. My opinion, ralph Friedman, your opinion.

Speaker 2: 47:40

Well, you touched on two points and you're 100% right. First of all, the people that make these laws. They don't understand how the police operate. You must have CIs. There's no department that can't work without CIs. It's one of the things that they need an operating tool. That's very necessary and, like you said, if you have a body camera on, you're recording it and the attorneys are entitled under discovery rules to expose your CI. It's ridiculous. It shows that people that are making the laws aren't aware of how police work works.

Speaker 2: 48:20

I was a thousand percent against body cams. I wasn't involved with them personally because I'm retired 41 years. They're only out maybe two years now, maybe something like that. But I was totally against it for police because I feel they're being watched, they're micromanaged. They get out of the car, there's enough cell phones, people with cell phones filming them all the time also. But I think it sort of makes the police a little more hesitant in taking their actions because they feel like they're on a movie set. They're being filmed. Everything's going to be criticized afterwards, but the other side of the coin is, in today's policing world, the cop on the street. I think these cameras now I tried to change my opinion are protecting them because somehow the public has lost trust in the police. We know that and they don't take their word or take them seriously. So now people make allegations and it's proven that they're lying with the body cams. It's sort of been helping the police because the police are more laid back now and they're not doing the kind of policing we did 20, 30, 40 years ago. So in a way it's helping.

Speaker 2: 49:37

I'll give you a small example. I was doing a bouncing job once, right, and I was working. It was a side door, it was right from the front, but they called it the back door. This was the entrance, so I was assigned to watch the door there. And a girl comes up and you know everyone's trying to get in and you know to bypass the front door who won't let them in or whatever, for whatever reason. And the girl tells me I want to come in. I said, well, you got to go to the door and there was a camera above it. And she says to me well, I'm going to call the police if you don't let me in and say you grabbed my breast. I said, well, you could do that, but if you look up there and see that camera, when the police get here, I'm going to have you arrested for making a false report. She looked at the camera and walked away, knew she was beaten, you know. But in that kind of respect people make a lot of allegations about the police. You know, either bar stops or interactions on the street or responding to someone's house, any kind of call they get. The camera goes on now and it protects the police because they're not doing the kind of police work that we have done and people make these allegations still. So I guess I changed my mind a little on that part, but it's still micromanaging and besides the body cam, everybody has a cell phone. Everybody has a camera. They're filming every minute. You walk in for a coffee or a slice of pizza. There's 30 cameras on it.

Speaker 2: 51:07

It's a different age of policing and I guess the compensation, the balance, is today's officers make a lot more money than we did 30, 40 years ago. When I came on as a trainee, as I said before, I was making $4,000 a year for the first two years. Then, when I got hired as a patrolman, top pay was $9,600. Today officers are making $150,000. $100,000 to $150,000,. Today officers are making $150,000, $100,000, $150,000, detectives making money.

Speaker 2: 51:38

I mean we got forces on the job that made more than the president of the United States when I was a cop, and they're trained different to handle the kind of public that they have to face today. I think they have a harder job today than we had. We had to fight the perpetrators, but they still got to fight perpetrators politicians and bosses, you know, and the public. Everybody's against you. At least we had the public, the politicians and bosses on our side. So I think today's policing is even tougher.

Speaker 2: 52:05

I only had one person to fight the criminals. They're getting it from all sides, they're boxed in. I feel bad for today's men and women and they want to be cops and they're trained better and have better equipment and better knowledge and they don't let them do the job. It's a sad state of affairs and that's why you see crime rising. And, like I said, I don't want to make this a political show, but one of the problems with police departments is they're being ran by politicians. Politicians can't run a police department. You need police officers that work their way up the ranks.

Speaker 1: 52:39

They won't be on this show. I'll tell you that right now. Those kind of guys.

Speaker 2: 52:45

It's like you know what I go into a hospital for heart surgery and having a janitor run the surgery. You have politicians run the police department. They don't know what they're doing. They never walk into a dark alley or a back street three in the morning or did patrol and get on neighborhoods or handled a man with a gun or a knife or a psycho oh, excuse me, epd, emotionally disturbed person You're not allowed to say psycho anymore but they don't have no hands-on training. You're not allowed to say psycho anymore but they don't have no hands-on training. You know you have police department bosses that have knowledge, training, experience. Those are the things you need to run a department.

Speaker 2: 53:23

Like I said, you wouldn't have a janitor running your heart surgery. You go in. You want the best doctor, heart surgeon to run your heart surgery. But this is how it is today. You know it's a different world, different world for everything and especially in policing, and people don't realize how much it affects them. You know men and women today they want to go out. These are the people that'll take a bullet for a stranger. You know when those bullets start flying, you don't see the NFL or the NBA, nba or act is running that way. You're not running the other way.

Speaker 3: 53:55

You see cops going that way so I, I, uh, I love new york. I'm up there a couple times a year and, um, I always hear, every time I'm up there, someone somewhere has a conversation with me about how crazy it was in the 70s with the burning trash cans and the, and the streets that you couldn't walk down, you know, after dark or whatever, and and now you're starting to see, you know, with like the zero cash bails and like the, the, the news just reporting on all the, you know, crazy people attacking innocent people and all that stuff. Do you see like, um, maybe like, do you see a return to what it does? It? Is it starting to feel like it did back then, like a back to the future type thing, yeah, or is it a completely different landscape?

Speaker 2: 54:44

well, crime is going back. I mean, I don't even think the police. It seems like they don't even have a chance to handle the real crime. They're're so busy with other things, with protest. Every day there's protests.

Speaker 2: 54:54

I love New York. I love New York. I moved out of New York only for personal reasons and stuff, but I was born and bred in the Bronx. I have across my chest is tattooed Bronx, new York. I love New York but I hate what it's become.

Speaker 2: 55:10

It totally changed the policies, the agendas. The news doesn't report the news fairly. It's very biased and they report their agenda and the city has just ran terribly. It's just not ran right and that's why things are getting worse. Um, it's like I say before they don't stop it in its tracks and if you let it fester it gets worse. You know, if you get a cut on your hand, you wash your hand, you put bacitracin on your, bandage it, then it gets better. If you leave, do nothing, uh, it's going to get infected and that's what's happening with the city. The city is infected, the illegals.

Speaker 2: 55:56

Migration didn't help. They don't handle that right. They invited them here. Then they complain about it. They let crime go on. Like you touched on Jeff.

Speaker 2: 56:07

The cash bail is a total, total disaster. They really we used to make fun of revolving justice and they get out, but now they really are getting out before the police. They don't even get in. They don't even get in. They don't even DAs are not doing their jobs. They don't prosecute. That's what they're hired for. A DA is a prosecutor. They don't prosecute, they throw everything out.

Speaker 2: 56:39

You know the police are just one small cog in the wheel. You know you need the DAs to do their job, you need the judges to do their job, you need parole boards to do their job. But if the others don't work, the police are like spinning their wheels. You know the police at the bottom they do the job and then they throw the case out. How does that help anybody? How does that help society? You know what we lost the word victim. No one cares about the victim. Everybody cares about the perpetrator's rights.

Speaker 2: 57:01

These perpetrators, not only are they getting out, they're suing and collecting money all the time. The public doesn't even know the city created a job for these perpetrators. They actually get paid every time they get arrested. They make complaints. The officers slapped me, they mistreated me, they didn't give me water, they didn't treat me with kid gloves. De Blasio started this program. Every single person who got arrested was getting like $900 to $1,500. As long as they said they were mistreated or manhandled or anything. It's just terrible what's going on. They don't even know how bad things are.

Speaker 3: 57:37

But this sounds kind of like a systemic thing, like there's so many layers. How do you pull the city out of that?

Speaker 2: 57:45

Well, you know, I feel it will get worse before it gets better. But the pendulum always swings back, you know. It has to. Look how bad it got until Giuliani got there, you know, and then he curbed it in, you know, he brought things under control again. But it'll swing, you know, worse before it gets better. But the pendulum will swing back, you know, because then it'll just turn into a jungle. You just need a few more politicians and their families getting mugged, you know, and justice will turn around. It has to, otherwise we're going to go back to the jungle. It's going to be chaotic.

Speaker 3: 58:25

What's the reason the DA is not prosecuting? Are they prosecuting other things? Are they focused on other things? Are they hiding what's going on? They they focused on other things? Are they hiding what's going?

Speaker 2: 58:34

on. They're focused on their own agenda. We all know everybody's heard the name.

Speaker 3: 58:40

DA Bragg.

Speaker 2: 58:42

He has his own liberal agenda. There's people out there that believe in no prisons, no police, so they certainly don't believe in arrests. They don't want the police to enforce the laws. I personally think they're wired something different. I don't believe in arrest. They don't want the police to enforce the laws. I personally think they're wired something different. I don't understand it. I was grown up, I was born and raised with law and order. If I saw a cop, I never really did anything wrong. If I see a cop, I was respectful of him. I feel the way the whole system has to work is decent. People have to respect the police and criminals have to fear the police. That's how the system works Right now. It's not working. Law enforcement is a very good job. It's a job that should be respected and it needs backing, and you would think that the public would want to back it. You're protecting them. How do you turn on your own protectors?

Speaker 3: 59:39

Do you feel like anytime there's a scandal, you know within the police, like the public gets this idea of like all the everyone else is going to cover for the bad apple to make themselves not seem like part of a bad group, do you think? Do you think that, um, do you think that, like holding individual people, bad apples, accountable, uh, improves the public trust on policing as a whole?

Speaker 2: 1:00:07

I feel I believe in holding everybody accountable, but the problem is today they only hold police accountable. They're not holding DAs who throw these cases out and not doing their job, judges who dismiss cases or give them a three-month sentence instead of five years. No one's held accountable. And then you see everyone. They lock up today for every major crime. You see, the guys are recidivists. I mean, you hear guys with 50 arrests, 25 arrests, 100 arrests. There was a guy with 204 arrests. How could that be? You know, don't you see a patent? This guy is not going to conform to society. He doesn't belong in society. That's why there's jails. But these other people are not accountable. You know, if an officer screws up, they hold them very accountable. You've got to account for everything you do. It's micromanic, but no one looks at the DAs. The cop brings in a serious, violent felon and you don't prosecute him, or you bring up lesser charges, or the judge gives him a month instead of 10 years. What kind of justice system is that? There's no accountability after police officers.

Speaker 3: 1:01:24

So we had a session recorded this morning and we were talking about sanctuary cities and sanctuary states and things like that, and Sam, our guest, was saying that he really doesn't see much you can do about it, until victims start holding these DAs and these judges accountable monetarily, like when the first one is able to sue him because they let the guy out 15 times and then he kills your wife or your husband and you're able to take that to court and win. Maybe that you hit him in the wallet, maybe that starts you know, um, you know having an effect. What do you? What do you feel about that?

Speaker 2: 1:02:04

I think that would be great that's part of accountability if you could hold someone accountable, because that is happening now. People are coming out of jail and that they're not being held for the right time or cases are being dismissed. Their rap sheets are a mile long and they're still committing crimes. And the sanctuary cities, the money that we're spending on these? They're illegal. You know. They can give them all the names they want undocumented migrants. They're illegals. If you did this stuff in other countries, they'd shoot you at the border. If you fly to Florida, they're checking your ID to get on the plane. If you go to the Bahamas, you got to have a passport. These people are walking across. They're holding our own people hostage and letting the illegals do whatever they want.

Speaker 2: 1:02:50

I believe in helping people, but after you help yourselves, you take care of your family, then you help your neighbor. But we should have in America. There should be no homeless veterans, no hungry people, no homeless people. We take care of all of them. Look at all the billions that they came up with to help the illegals. Why didn't that money go to help our own people before that? You know we shouldn't have homeless. We shouldn't have anybody hungry. You know, especially veterans. You know why? Why did all these billions come out of the woodwork and help them before these migrants even came here, these illegals? Why? Where was that money being held? Why wasn't it? Why would there be someone homeless or hungry in America? And we give plane loads of money to countries that hate us. They're chanting death to America and we're shipping them pallets of money. How is that? We can take care of other countries, but take care of America first, america first. No homeless, no hungry, no veteran in need.

Speaker 3: 1:03:56

America first, but I think friends second, and all the enemies can go screw themselves right.

Speaker 2: 1:04:03

Exactly.

Speaker 3: 1:04:03

Exactly.

Speaker 2: 1:04:07

But where was all these billions that are being shipped out to other countries and the billions being spent on these illegals? Here? They get everything. They're actually giving them pensions. They get like these debit cards and credit cards of like $350 a week. That's $1,400 pension, you know. Plus, they get free food, free health care, free lawyers, free medical, free college, free clothes, free books. Where was this money when our homeless and our hungry are still around Everywhere in the United States? We could have taken care of them.

Speaker 3: 1:04:46

Probably for a fraction of the cost that we spent. So you retired in the early 80s. I got hurt for the first time in 1984.

Speaker 2: 1:05:01

It was due to a line-of-duty car accident, responding to an officer that needed help and I just got back from a motorcycle trip. I was down in Virginia Beach. I came back and I was like still vibrating, you know. So I told my partner, you could drive, because I used to drive like 90 of the time. So I let him drive and, uh, not that it was his fault, we don't know whose fault it was but we were responding to this officer calling for assistance and, uh, we got t-boned by a police car. We were in an unmarked police vehicle of a lorry and we got hit by a blue and white. A rookie was driving with a seasoned female officer in the car. We were all hurt, but they were all treated and released within 12 hours. I wound up in the hospital for almost three months and then I left the job in a wheelchair.

Speaker 3: 1:05:54

So was that a forced thing? Yeah.

Speaker 2: 1:05:58

Yeah, I couldn't run anymore. It took me well into like a year and a half to be able to sort of get my body back together. I didn't want to work indoors or anything like that. My injuries were very severe. I broke 23 bones. I shattered my hip in 100 pieces and I broke my pelvic, left, right, upper and long. I didn't get any surgeries because I had a lot of muscle on my body and they said you might last two years, you might last 20 with the hip. But I cut out all sports and I cut out jogging. I used to play a lot of racquetball, so I cut all that out. And now I went on 41 years and I still didn't get a new hip. But I walked, you know okay, but I can't really run. Even if I'm sleeping and lay on my right side, I wake up because I feel pressure, you know, and sometimes the weather really bothers the hip.

Speaker 3: 1:06:51

Wow. So I'm sure there was plenty of times that you wished you could have gone back and done what you were doing before.

Speaker 2: 1:06:58

Oh man, I still miss the job today.

Speaker 1: 1:07:00

The real guys think about it every day, okay. That's why I'm in the PI business, jeff, okay, because I still go on the fringe and I work with some of my supervisors sons and daughters, which is really cool. I knew them when they were like eight years old, ten years old, okay. I probably gave them their first beer when their father wasn't looking. So I look at it that way uncle toby I still miss it.

Speaker 2: 1:07:32

But I don't miss. I probably wouldn't miss today's job. I miss, you know, from back in the day when, when we were actually allowed to do police work, you know, and not be micromanaged, and do the job that was necessary to take the perpetrators off the street. You know, I don't think there's any police officer, I'm sure there's no police officer. I'm sure there's no police officer that wants to see innocent people or the elderly or babies abused by these vicious animals. You know, and it gives you a sense of pride and a good feeling to take these people off the street. You know I had cases where old ladies are beat up, old men are beat up. I had infants burnt with cigarettes.

Speaker 2: 1:08:14

You know it's hard for the public. They hear about it on the news, they see it in movies and stuff, but it's like they're used to it, it's words. Even if they see it on TV or a movie, it's not like seeing it in person. You see blood and guts and stuff like that. What one human could do to another human. You know only police, police officers, and you know federally, people like that, law enforcement, see the underbelly of society.

Speaker 2: 1:08:48

Yeah no, you're right.

Speaker 1: 1:08:50

You're right about that. And the book and I'll do a little self-promotion here Behind Blue Eyes it's meant for it's a 1972 song by the who and I'm sure Ralph likes that stuff and rock and roll, like me, and that's how the number came up. But if you don't experience something, uh, personally you don't have the perceptive I. I have people. You have people that talk about things and they've never done the job. You know, like you know, I'm sure you're frustrated.

Speaker 1: 1:09:29

You see these law enforcement experts on the major cable and news shows and you know I don't care, they haven't done shit. Some of them, that's just to put it mildly, they don't. They haven't thrown cuffs on anybody, you know, and and stuff like that. We we've had people in the federal government that probably can count their arrests on one hand. Now not to say that you know that's a bad thing, say they went on to do other things, but you know. And then you have someone here that's made 2,000 collars and not in a career that was cut short by injury. So the respect level goes out to that. So I'm so glad you're here today, ralph, and the experience I hope we can do is put out the word to get more recruits.

Speaker 1: 1:10:26

I saw something the other day on the news that recruiting is actually going back up and I often wonder, you know, are they back interested in the job or is it the state of the economy too? I mean, like Ralph said, you can make $150,000 a year. When I started, I left the local police department in Massachusetts and I went to be a deputy US marshal and I went from $17,000a year down to $11,000. Took a cut in pay, but as we talked about with the unions and stuff like that, I wouldn't have seen patrol on the day shift for about 15 years. So you know, you have to weigh the balances in what you do, and I didn't come from a law enforcement background either in my family. I just was interested in the job, you know, and I think it's a calling to the real people that stay in law enforcement and love it. It's a calling, you know, hey, ralph.

Speaker 3: 1:11:34

I asked this question earlier and it was pretty cool and I got a good response what? It's a two-part question. What freaks you out the most today? What? What freaks you out the most and what gives you the most hope? 2024, we're talking 2024, us of A.

Speaker 2: 1:11:54

Well, like I said before, it freaks me out that they let certain situations get to a certain point and I don't see cops carrying nightsticks, you know, I believe there's sometimes more justice at the end of the nightstick than in the court of law and I don't like to see the police be abused and stuff. That bothers me to no end. You know, I still respect the job and I respect the men and women that do it and they deserve everybody's respect and that just ticks me off. You know that they let the police not being police, don't let them be, you know, do police work? That bothers me? Don't let them be, you know. Do police work? That bothers me and I don't like to. I don't like what these protesters block traffic, interfere with people going home from work or going to work, or block emergency vehicles, disrupt people. You know decent people's daily life, you know. I think it's a travesty of justice and I it bothers me that the politicians, how it's changed over the years and they have a different agenda today.

Speaker 3: 1:13:01

Any hope, anything good going on there's always hope, there's always hope.

Speaker 2: 1:13:07

Just that men and women want to become cops today. That gives us hope. And we do hear from some politicians and council people and stuff that you know some people do want to change it back. You know there is hope, there's always hope. People like us that still talk about it and bring it to the public's view and let them hear us and let them know. You know there are people that stand up. You know I think most people do respect the police. It's like the broken wheel theory the squeaky wheel gets the oil. It's a small percentage of people that are very vocal. They've got nothing else, nothing better to do than start a crowd with decent people busy working and living their lives.

Speaker 3: 1:13:55

Well, I know, I for one, I'm going to read the book, I'm going to watch the uh, the show and, um, anything else.

Speaker 2: 1:14:00

Anything you want to shout out, anything, uh, you want to plug, I want to promote the book again street warrior by pat piccarelli and ralph friedman. Uh, street justice, the bronx, which is on Amazon right now, and there's six shows, one season, six episodes. And again, thank you guys for having me on.

Speaker 1: 1:14:21

Thank you very much. It's a real honor and a pleasure, and not from the nostalgic point, but I think we try to project the future on what's going to happen, and I think that's really, really important. And through the series, if we reach somebody and recruit them on the job, then that's a wonderful thing.

Speaker 2: 1:14:48

Well, prayers out to all law enforcement.

Speaker 1: 1:14:51

Yes, our Blue Brothers, this is Police Week. Thank you for the job you do.

Speaker 2: 1:14:53

Yes, yep this is Police to all law enforcement.

Speaker 1: 1:14:54

Yes, our blue brothers, this is police week. Thank you for the job you do. Yes.

Speaker 2: 1:14:56

Yep, this is police week too.

Speaker 3: 1:14:58

Yes, Thank you so much, Ralph. Thank you Ralph.