Speaker 1: 0:00

This will be part two of the interview with Pete Thrun for Justice Then, justice Now. Pete, as you know, is an award-winning author. He's written numerous books I mean numerous law enforcement books on Amazon. One of these I have a stake in. It's called Behind Blue Eyes. I'm very grateful for him for writing it and it's about 14 cases long and talks about cases that I worked over my 40 plus year career.

Speaker 1: 0:40

Okay, pete has written a new book. I'll let him talk to you about that. That's just come out and is a bestseller on Amazon in the law enforcement category, and he's also going to discuss what's happened to him since the first episode that was cut, which he described his career in New York City as a police officer and doing investigations and making arrests and everything that goes with the territory making over a thousand arrests and the unfortunate circumstances that happened to him, which he's going to pick up from. That happened to him, which he's going to pick up from, and we're going to discuss also where Pete is going now in his career as a writer. And as for this show Justice Then, justice Now he has a unique perspective on the criminal justice system and will be a frequent guest. I don't want to give the basis of the second part away, so I'll let him talk about it, and then, in the final closing chapter of today, he will discuss what his future plans are. Pete, great to have you.

Speaker 2: 2:02

Thanks Tob, have you? Thanks, tob. I appreciate again being on and I do appreciate being part of Just as Then, just as Now. I'm looking forward to the future with you guys, you and Jeff and I'm honored to be a part of this.

Speaker 1: 2:19

We appreciate having you and that, and you have a truly unique perspective on this. Besides being my friend for life, you know it's. It's wonderful to hear your story and what you're doing and that you got a new book out is fantastic. We talked briefly about it. It's an in-depth I guess you would call a manual. This is a little different for you in achieving this. It's an investigator's manual. So anyway, let's pick it up, though. Last time we were discussing that you had gone to court and what happened at the conclusion of your case before the judge and that, and then we'll continue on with our conversation.

Speaker 2: 3:13

Okay. So I was found guilty by the jury. I was found not guilty of the major charge, thank God, which they had me for a robbery. They found me not guilty for that and the DAs that I had been really close friends with and the cops that I was close with, like I told you earlier in the first episode, we had sat down when this all happened to me and we had dinner and I put out all the paperwork of the case before I went to trial and even the DA said listen, if they find you not guilty of the robbery, all the other charges have to be thrown out because there is no case. All the other charges have to be thrown out because there is no case. And I got found not guilty and that wasn't the case. I mean it was. I don't want to get political, but the judge was very biased against law enforcement and I'll tell you a little about that in a second. And he did some unethical things while charging the jury and most police officers.

Speaker 2: 4:33

I know as a police officer I knew two books. I knew my patrol guide. I didn't always follow my patrol guide. I didn't always follow the patrol guy. I didn't always follow the rules. I'd be the first one to say that, because there's sometimes rules just don't apply in the street. Toby and rules have their own the rules. The streets I worked in they had their own rules. In order for me to survive, I had to adapt to those rules. It was a game. It's still a game. If you're a cop now, you rules. It was a game, it's still a game. If you're a cop now, you better treat it like a game and it's us against them, it's the bad guys against the good guys. And rules don't apply in the street. You have to follow them, because if you want to keep your job, I understand that, but if you want to stay alive in my case, back in the 80s and 90s, those rules were bent to stay alive.

Speaker 2: 5:34

I was in three shootings. I had my nose ripped off, my face with a .45 automatic and after that everything was out the window. So I was going to be the first one to strike instead of being struck, and after that, everything was out the window. I was going to be the first one to strike instead of being struck. That being said, I went to trial for the crimes that I was locked up for and I beat the robbery. Thank God because I would have gotten this judge would have given me 25 years in prison. That's how much he did not like law enforcement officers. I was found guilty of the law city of the money that I turned in and vouchered that I had done over a thousand times the same way, as found guilty of falsifying my memo book and documents that another officer filled out and that became a problem. So I had to

Speaker 2: 6:41

get. I waited a month to be sentenced and I got a bunch of letters written for me and I had a captain, captain Lennox, and he was a sergeant at the time. He actually became a chief later on in his life, sergeant Hawk, who I was basically partners with when I drove him as a uniform officer. They wrote me letters with other cops and when I went to my sentencing I asked the judge if you might. My lawyer asked the judge if he could read the. I had about 30 letters before sentencing, so he said yes, he agreed to it. He said go have some breakfast and come back here in an

Speaker 2: 7:25

hour. And when we came back the judge was livid. He smashed his gavel down. He said what irks me more is that you had the audacity to give me these letters from a captain and a sergeant that were that basically said that you one letter my captain wrote that I was just trying to out muscle the, the dealers, on on my beat and arrest as many people as I could that were doing crimes. And with me being arrested and convicted, he put his papers in and he retired Because he said in silent I can't stay in silent purgatory without going to bat for this officer because he was just trying to do the right thing and he should have never been convicted of a crime. I should still be a cop. The sergeant I keep calling him a lieutenant sergeant. He went further by saying Officer Thrawn, I don't want to sound like I'm tooting my own horn by saying Officer Thrawn, I don't want to sound like I'm tooting my own horn was the greatest collar cop I have ever

Speaker 2: 8:50

encountered. And the judge was biased. He hated all. He wrote this in the letter. He hated all law enforcement and he convicted an innocent man. The judge went ballistic, ballistic. He sentenced me to one and a half to four years in prison. I did about two years before I got paroled. But the captain and lieutenant, when they got back to the commands that day, they were suspended without pay Without pay for going to bat for me because he made a phone call and said I want their gun and shield. Either suspend them or I'm going to go after them, or whatever he said. I can't say what he

Speaker 2: 9:32

said. I went to Rikers for like three weeks, which was a nightmare. I got bailed out for an appeal a nightmare. I got bailed out for an appeal and my original bond was $100,000, which was ridiculous. At that time. It was another $100,000. So my family had to put up we put up their houses and put up another 10,000 to get me

Speaker 2: 9:59

out. I called my lawyer and said you know I'm appealing this, let's do it. And he said I don't think you're going to be able to. I had paid him $25,000 to do my case and as far as I'm concerned he did a great job because he got me off of the robbery. I'd still be in jail, probably Now. Maybe I would have been out now. And he was honest with me. He said I don't do appeals, I'm not going to win it if I do it. I said

Speaker 2: 10:32

okay. So I made a few phone calls and I found that I found through a relative who was running to be a judge himself. He found a lawyer for me that was an appeal a lawyer and this guy was very confident. His name was I can only remember his last name, but his first name was Ben. He was confident that he was going to win. And when the case was brought, when the case was going the night before, he called me. He said OK, listen, I'm going to present it to the judges the six judges and I'll let you know what's going on. So I asked him. I said well, can I be there? He said well, no, it's an informal. It's an informal hearing. So I'm being guided by what this guy's saying. I kind of wanted to be there because I wanted to face the judges, but he was dead set against it. He said no, I have a very good report with these judges, don't worry about it. I'll call you tomorrow, let you know what happened.

Speaker 1: 11:42

What was his fear in you being present? Did he explain that?

Speaker 2: 11:49

I don't know and he never did say it. And I'll explain to you what happened after he called me, because that was a great question and I never really thought about it the way you just thought about it, because I'm still. I'm going to be honest, I'm still enraged over this. This is never going to people tell me to let it go. I'm never going to let it go. No, I'm never going to let it go because I'm going to be honest, I know I would have been a first grade detective. I know I would have been at least the least a second grade. So he I'm waiting for his phone call. It it's not coming. It's not coming. It finally comes like nine o'clock at night. First thing out of his mouth is like are you sitting down? That's not a good sign. Right there, I'm like I'd rather stand. What's going on? He goes okay, I know we have four judges that are going to rule for you, but there are two judges. One judge is up on the fence. He doesn't. I don't know how he's going to rule, but there's one judge he's a new judge. I've never seen him before. He's going to rule against you.

Speaker 2: 13:01

I do not know why I asked this question, but I did so, ben. What is the judges need? Because I remember that there was my original-. Can I interrupt for a second?

Speaker 1: 13:12

Did this require a unanimous of all judges for the appeal or a?

Speaker 2: 13:18

majority.

Speaker 2: 13:21

No, unanimous, had to be six. All, wow, okay, no, unanimous, had to be six, oh, okay. So I knew one of the judges that did my hearings was going to the appellant division. So I said what's the judge's name? Ben, it's my fucking judge. Judge andreas, I go. Can you repeat that name again? He says yeah, judge Andreas. I said Ben, did you even read the paperwork that I gave you for the Huntley hearing, the Wade hearing and the Mapp hearing?

Speaker 2: 13:55

He presided over those hearings and then he recused himself because he was becoming an appellant judge and he didn't want to deal with it because the Dirty 30 happened and he just gave it to another judge. He never put it in the wheel. He goes. Well, okay, that's a problem. I said a problem. I said he can't rule against himself, otherwise they're open for a lawsuit. I said he has to recuse himself now and we got to redo this. He goes. If you do that, there's only 12 other judges on the appellate division. They're all going to be poisoned because he's going to go back and tell them rule against this guy.

Speaker 2: 14:30

Once you get the case, rethink about what you want to do. It's the weekend. I'll make sure they don't do a decision until Monday. I'm like Ben, he's not going to rule in my favor. Well, I'm dead set against asking him to recuse himself. He wanted to give himself a bad name, because if you ask a judge to recuse himself anytime, you're going to face that judge. You're never going to get a favorable decision when you're the lawyer, said Judge, you're never going to get a favorable decision when you're the lawyer. So I listened to what he said. On Monday he said listen, you're lost. You have to surrender on April 1st. So that's great, Thank you. So I surrendered April 1st. My ex-wife at the time was just just got pregnant with our third child and the first night I went back to Rikers and I was only on Rikers for about a month. That that was just a messed up situation, but I really didn't have a problem because I was in a cell by myself. But they did move me to, did they?

Speaker 1: 15:55

put you in your cell by yourself because you were prior law enforcement. Is that the?

Speaker 2: 16:01

reason? Yeah, I was put in place. I was placed in PC but I was also in a dorm with PC guys. And what people don't realize is PC is no longer and even when I was in 30 years ago it's not PC, it's not protective custody, that's just a name. If somebody wants to get to you from general population they know you're on PC they're going to get thrown into PC to get you to get to you or have somebody do a crime, or I call it, do a hit inside the yard or get into a fight to get thrown in to PC to get to that person Not me particular, but to that person. So that bullshit with protective custody, that's a bunch of bullshit. There is no protective custody unless you're in the den, which is 23 hours.

Speaker 2: 17:11

You're in and you're allowed maybe a half hour in a little cage.

Speaker 1: 17:12

That's for exercise, right, Exercise yes.

Speaker 2: 17:18

Yes, you're like a fucking caged animal. You know. I was like okay, first of all you got to do something wrong to be thrown into there. So I went to Rikers. 30 days later they sent me to a place called downstate. That's like a. You're in transit where they're deciding where to put you in to your regular place.

Speaker 2: 17:41

Downstate was upstate, new York. There I I started. I just started honing my body into a machine. I was doing a thousand pushups every day, 300 dips and 300 pull-ups every day and about a thousand ab movements. I made my body into a piece of steel. But my mind was fucked up. For close to a year not a year, I'd say about six months I thought about killing myself every day. It was either I was going to do it myself, it was. First of all, it was the shame that I felt that I put on my mother and my family. Even though I didn't do it, I still had to live with that shame that, yeah, my son or my brother or my cousin or my father is a convicted felon, and that's a fucked up thing to have to live with when you're a law enforcement officer and the kind of one the one I was.

Speaker 2: 18:54

I was a crime fighter. There aren't many crime fighters that left in the United States and I was one of them, and I'm not saying that to be conceited. I could put a few people in that category, and those are the people that I write about. One of them is going to be a guest on your show. It's Ralph Friedman. He was a fucking crime fighter. We're a breed apart. You were a crime fighter. It's a title that I'm proud of, that I held. So I'm thinking about that and I'm thinking about okay, when am I going to get shanked? Listen, at that point I probably would have been able to hold off three guys. I was a very good fighter. I was a brown belt in Aikido. I was a good street fighter and I was strong then. But any more than that you're not going to win. You're going to get fucking killed or hurt. Bad, these guys don't play by rules. They're going to cut you up. I mean, I saw so many people get I call them joker faces, where they get cut from their lip to their ear. I saw it all the time in prison, even in PC.

Speaker 2: 20:22

The criminal, the convicts. They're geniuses when it comes to making weapons. They can make a cigarette butt into one of the sharpest blades you can imagine. They melt it into a crystal and then sharpen it on the ground and put it between their fingers and it becomes a razor blade. And they melt them together and it becomes a razor blade. It will cut your face open in a blade. They melt them together and it becomes a razor blade. It will cut your face open in a heartbeat. They sharpen toothbrushes down to spikes.

Speaker 2: 20:58

So about six months I just said I want to die. I thought about wrapping a towel, towel, a sheet around my neck and hanging myself, but I couldn't do it to my mother for one reason my father killed himself when I was 11 months old and there would be no way that I could allow my mother to go through that again, and I didn't want to leave my kids without a father like my father did. So I wasn't going to do that. That's the only reason you're speaking to me today, otherwise I would have. After six months, that feeling went away. I just got into a groove, everything.

Speaker 2: 21:42

I went to my regular prison, which was Oneida. It was literally nine hours away from my, my ex, my kids, so they couldn't come and visit me, and my mother made the ride every two weeks from Pennsylvania. She was able to be up to cut that ride down to about a three, three or four hour ride. So that's what I had to look forward to Every two weeks. I knew my mother was coming to visit me. She took care of me with commissary and she put money into my commissary, but she always brought me literally like four bags of food and I became a heavy smoker back then. You got three things to do in prison Smoke, train and watch TV and do whatever work they assign you. That's four things, I know, but that's all you got to do. I mean. And when I went into the day room I would always sit at the corner of the table for one reason and I'd have my hand like this.

Speaker 2: 22:49

So if I got cut, I got cut on my hand and guys would occasionally say you know you're a cop, fuck you, you're a cop, we don't trust you. And I'd have to come back and say don't trust you. And I'd have to come back and say no, I'm one of you. Now I'm not a cop in here, but inside I kept my. I knew I was a cop, but I became one of them. If you don't become one of them. You're not going to live. That's for anybody else. I had to double that because I was a cop.

Speaker 2: 23:27

So the deck was stacked against me 100 times worse than any normal prison. Because what's the number one thing you do? A cop in prison? You become a fucking king in there and you can write your own ticket. You're going to rule whatever floor you live on. So it's the truth. I was there, it's the truth.

Speaker 2: 23:53

So I pretty much just trained. I weight trained when I went to the yard. I read a lot. I was lucky enough my cellmate was another cop and he was really, really smart. He was actually writing his own appeal. So we would talk at night and just talk about. Sometimes we talk about war stories and on Sunday night it was a cool night because after the at the rec or the yard be about 11 o'clock at night, we turn the radio on and we would listen to the old time show the Shadow, and it was just and they had to play. They played it for like two hours and it was. That was the best time in prison for me to listen to that show with him, because we were like nobody knows but the shadow.

Speaker 2: 24:49

You know, this is something we did and that passed each week. We had to look forward to that my mother and his girlfriend or his fiance at the time. They came the same day, so they would meet at a halfway point and they would split. Who would buy cigarettes for us every two weeks? My mother would, and then Mac's family would buy them for the other two weeks, so we had a constant supply. We had about I don't know, maybe four cartons for every two weeks, and people you know. You know we used them to barter and to smoke.

Speaker 1: 25:29

I was a heavy smoker back then and Would you explain what you meant to barter for our audience that doesn't understand how the cigarettes and commissary stuff's used cigarettes and commissary stuffs used.

Speaker 2: 25:44

Okay, so it's. It's basically, if somebody, if I needed something or they needed something, I'd say, okay, that's going to be a pack of cigarettes. So if I say I wanted, if I, if we ran out of pasta or something, so you got any pasta left, he's they would say, yeah, we got two boxes, so I'd give you a pack of cigarettes Instantly. Okay, no problem. And I actually had a guy. I gave him I think I can't remember the number, but I gave him a lot of packs.

Speaker 2: 26:20

He drew. He was an artist and he drew a portrait of my son when he was born, beautiful picture. And when he handed it to me, he was this white guy with long hair, short, my assistant beard, and I got a little uncomfortable. He was like I want to show you something. I'm like okay, now, remember that the rec room is 80% black and Hispanic and 20% white. You're outnumbered by everybody. I was outnumbered. He says let me show you something. I said, okay, go ahead. Takes off his shirt and he has one of those things the flag with the snake on it Live, free or die.

Speaker 1: 27:15

Yeah, don't tread on me. Don't tread on me. Yeah.

Speaker 2: 27:22

He's like I'm a white supremacist. He's like excuse my language audience. He's like fuck those niggas. I said yo man, I'm getting close to going home. Keep cool with that, please. And he proceeded to tell me what got him in. He had worked his way down from a max to a medium. He was in for like 25 years.

Speaker 2: 27:53

And he told me how he lynched a black guy with this group that he was with and he dragged the guy with his truck and killed the guy. But he was proud of it and I was just like and the problem was he was talking loud enough where they heard and I'm like listen, thanks for the picture. We got to stay away from each other and he wasn't going to mess with me because I was twice his size. I would have crushed him. And I went over to them and said listen, I don't condone that shit and you know I don't. And they said, no, you're. They said we know you're cool, but he had a problem after that. He had a big problem because they were all looking, they were going to do something to him. I just didn't want to be around him. So my I, what I was doing was I kind of lied my way into one of the groups where I wanted to just want to be out of my cell and I said I was an alcoholic, I'm not a big drinker, I just wanted to go to that group to be out of the cell. My cellmate was in it, I was a gambler. So I was like, all right, I'll say I'm an alcoholic, I'm a gambler, big deal, same thing.

Speaker 2: 29:20

So I'm sitting at the meeting and the counselor was a pretty woman, miss Gomez. I kept seeing her stare at me. So I'm like Matt, and we went back to our. I sell it. I feel like the third meeting. I'm like, do you see her checking me out? He's like you're fucking out of your mind. You're just, you're just fucking. I'm like I'm telling you, telling you, man, something's up with her. The next meeting she sits next to me. She's married to a correction officer. That works. Wow, yeah, big problem. She crossed her legs to me and her foot was behind my leg and she's going like this with her foot. I'm like what the fuck? And I started getting attracted to her too. So we talked and became good friends, but nothing ever happened. So I something later would happen, I'll tell you. So I go to my tonight before my parole hearing. Still haven't gotten into any fights, nothing making sure I'm staying clean.

Speaker 2: 30:44

I was good friends with the sergeant that was the sergeant on the floor. Pretty good friends with the sergeant that was the sergeant on the floor. Pretty good friends with most of the officers I worked in the Bing. I worked on that floor and that was one of my jobs. I had three jobs and there were three of them. They were pretty racist and they were pretty bad to the prisoners. You know these guys are locked in 23 hours a day. They were fucked up to them. They did some fucked up things to them. So I'm waiting to do my parole hearing. So now all the convicts are coming up with their suggestions on how to get paroled. Like, all right, you know, you got to say you did it, you got to admit that you did it and I'm like I can't do that Like I didn't do it, I did my job that night.

Speaker 2: 31:46

They're like if you don't fucking admit it, you're not going home. So I actually saw a priest four hours before and I said Father, I can't admit that I did a crime when I didn't do a crime. He said I can only pray for you. I cannot give you any advice. I said I appreciate that you I cannot give you any advice. I said I appreciate that and I got called into the hearing my parole board. There was a woman that was the head of the board and one gentleman on the left and one gentleman on the right and she opened my file and she said we've read your file and you've been an exemplary prisoner. The officers have nothing but good things to say about you. Why are you here? I'm like, okay, this is a trap question. How the fuck do I answer it? So I said I got convicted of for doing my job that night. I broke it, which I really didn't, but I had to say something, said I broke protocol with the guidelines of the patrol guide. I never said I broke the law. I said I probably should have been disciplined by my job. But they went further with it. I know you guys are familiar with the 30-30, and they said yes. And I said I know you guys are familiar with the 3030. And they said yes. And then she said didn't ask me anything else. She said do you have with a concern to my case? She said do you have a place to go when you leave? I said yes. Do you have employment lined up? I said yes. She said I have no further questions. The guy on the left said I have no further questions. And the guy on the left he asked me something like do you feel yourself rehabbed, reformed? I said yes. So that's it. You're free to go. Good luck to you. That was it. So the rule of thumb when you go to your parole board is when the letter gets slipped under the door and you pick it up and you put it in your hand and you drop it to the floor. If it drops to the floor quickly and it's heavy, you're not going home. If it floats like a feather, you're going home. So I picked it up and I said Matt, you drop it. He said just drop it, man, I'm standing right next to you. So it floated. I said can you open it up? Because I didn't want to open it. I was still so fucking nervous. He said you're going home in like six weeks and he was sad because now he had no, he was going to be bunked with a convict that he had nothing in common with. Five weeks went fast.

Speaker 2: 35:04

The last week I was in prison was a fucking nightmare, total nightmare. It was in prison was a fucking nightmare, total nightmare. It was in October. It snowed. I was very active with the yard, I was in good shape and I got. It was maybe like 20 degrees out because you're upstate, it's cold and there's probably like this much snow on the ground.

Speaker 2: 35:30

And they're like we want to play a tackle football game. I'm like all right, I know I can hang with you guys, I don't give a fuck, I play tackle football. So we're playing and the officers are betting on what team's going to win and they're watching we're playing for a good 30 minutes. People are getting banged up. It was like that movie that Sylvester Stallone was in when he went to jail. And they played the football game they got. I mean, guys were getting bloodied. It was a rough game because we're playing on cement. So officer says, okay, last play. So Mac, my, my cellmate, he's quarterback and he's like pete, I'm gonna hand you the ball score. I'm like, okay, just block you guys, block. For me.

Speaker 2: 36:18

It was this big guy. His name was moose, big black guy guy was the size of a fucking house. I run right into him and he fucking gut punched me, lift me off the air. I'm going down to the ground. I'm like what the fuck was that man? It's like that's how we do it in Buffalo copper and I was friends with this guy the whole time.

Speaker 2: 36:48

I'm like I'm not a fucking cop, I'm a convict, and that bothered me to say. I will tell you that right now. That bothered me To this day. It bothered me. I'm a convict, like you are. It's like you're a cop. I'm heartened. I'm like, fuck that motherfucker broke my rib, so we get back to the cell. I'm like fuck that motherfucker broke my rib, so we get back to the cell.

Speaker 2: 37:11

I'm like Mac, I think I broke my rib. I think Moose broke my rib. I said I feel something wet, maybe it's sweat. Guy fucking stabbed me with a shank, went right through my coat, I just didn't know. So I have a hole in the center of my stomach. It's probably about an inch deep, Like I can't go to the fucking infirmary, they'll hold me back. Now you go to the infirmary when you're a week away. You ain't going home for another six months because they don't want a complaint. You can go home and say, yeah, the correctional officers did it to me. So I'm like Mac, I cannot go to the infirmary and I am in pain. So we got to seal this up because we got to stop fucking bleeding. We had to stop fucking bleeding.

Speaker 2: 38:21

Now one of the officers that I became good friends with down in the lower floor, which is the bank Officer Nobles, he liked me so much that he gave me a metal spoon, which he wasn't supposed to, just to eat with. And I said, mac, you got to fucking heat the spoon up. We got to cauterize it. I gotta stop the bleeding. He's like I can't do that. I'm like I have no other way. I can't tell them I need a fucking band-aid. This thing is bleeding too heavy. I said just heat the fucking spoon up. I kept my back to the door because the door had, like this skinny window that they could see in. So he put a book in my mouth, a paperback.

Speaker 2: 38:54

He eats up the spoon and, oh you motherfucker, we just heard sizzling of the blood and it didn't fully cauterize it, it was like half. I'm like it's heating up again. He's like I can't do it, man, I can't Just get it up again. He's like I can't do it, man, I can't Just get it over with. Second time he put it in, heats it up. He caught a rise. I like fucking just went to my bed and I'm like just tell him I'm sleeping, man, I just want to go to sleep.

Speaker 2: 39:25

Next morning I got up, scabbed up, good, but I was hurting. I didn't know. I knew I didn't have like internal anything, like he didn't puncture any major organs, but it was a nice size wound. So like I go through, like for the next few days. I'm in a little pain, but not bad. I even get back into the yard and start training. Now I'm three, four days late, maybe three or four days away, and I'm lifting, I'm doing flies with this guy, this big guy named Ruiz. That was like six, three and I had like 55 pounders or 60 pounders and I would spring up after the set and place them on my knees and put them to the sides.

Speaker 2: 40:18

One of the dumbbells goes forward and lands on my fucking toe with a steel. It was a steel toe, but just in front it was the boots that they gave you and it breaks my fucking big toe. I go to scream. He puts his hands he watched the whole thing. He puts his hands against my mouth and said don't say a word if they see that you got hurt, you ain't going home. I'm like broke my toe. He's like shut the fuck up and take the pain. They tell us okay, end of the yard, let's go clean it up. He's like you gotta walk normal. So I'm like I can't. My fucking foot is broken. He's like walk on the corner like the side of your foot and make sure you're not putting the pressure on your toe and walk normal. So I proceed to do that and go into my cell. I'm like Mac, I think I broke my foot. Can you take a look at it? He's like take your boot off. I took the boot off. My toe swells up to like a fucking grapefruit. He's like you broke your fucking toe bad. I'm like he's like we got to put a new sock on. I got to get your boot back on. You're going to have to sleep with your boot on because if we let it sit. It's just going to get worse. So I slept with my boot on for the rest of the time. Weekend comes.

Speaker 2: 41:55

This all happened in one week in the West. I knew I'm down in the still kind of hobbling but not showing it and the bank would mop it. And I know the guy in the very first cell. He just got thrown in there. I used to see the guy, became friends with the guy during visitation and his family. He was in for a DWI. He was going home soon. He was at a visitation with his wife and kids. One of the convicts one of the guys said. One of the inmates said I shouldn't call them convicts. One of the inmates said something to his wife derogatory, sexual. So he got up to defend her, gets into a fight, gets thrown into the bin. Now he was a month away from going on too. So I kept talking to him, you know, saying hello to him.

Speaker 2: 42:59

Hour four was right above the 23-hour lockdown and it was like 3 o'clock in the morning. My cell was right above his. I hear these CEOs that I knew that I didn't like. They're tuning somebody up. Bad, it's the guy. And he's screaming I didn't do nothing. What are you doing? And I'm yelling shut the fuck up, motherfucker. You're pounding a living fuck out of him, tony. And it all goes silent. I'm like okay, at least they stopped doing it. Getting ready I'm like okay, at least they stopped doing it. I'm getting ready for work.

Speaker 2: 43:54

At 5 o'clock see an ambulance coroner, me state police. I said what the fuck is that for? I go down to work. His cell is taped with a crunching tape. Do not enter. The officers, the guys that did it. They're off now. Now it's a new shift and this guy helping him. I didn't like. He's like, yeah, it's the same shame. What happened to john last night? I'm like what are you talking about? He hung himself and killed himself. Like like, really, that sucks. He was, he was a really nice guy. Now my fucking heart is beating.

Speaker 1: 44:48

And he was in for DUI. Yeah, okay.

Speaker 2: 44:53

My heart is pounding Because all I want to do is get the fuck away from these guys now, because I know what happened. So my shift ends, I go up to my cell. The heating system was in the floor so you could hear everything that was going on in other cells and downstairs. So I'm it's like three o'clock at night. I'm like Mac, I got to talk to you. It's like what. I'm like? They fucking killed that guy last night. They said he hung himself and he's like he didn't fucking hang himself and we thought we were talking low, low enough for us not to be heard.

Speaker 2: 45:43

Sunday night comes. I'm going home Tuesday, officer Noble, sunday during the day. I'm going home Tuesday, officer Noble, sunday during the day. I should say Officer Noble, who I was friends with, he's working. He calls me into the back room and he goes like this to me Don't say anything. He writes stop talking about what happened in the cell in 1A, forget about it, just go home, wrote it out and fucking burned it. I nodded to say I understand.

Speaker 2: 46:21

Afternoon comes, sergeant knocks on our cell door. He's like open up the gate to 1A on our floor, steps in. He's like Mac, who do you want to be with. When your buddy here Now he used to call me Pete your buddy over here leaves, he tells him where he wants to be. He goes all right, step out, go to the rec room I need to speak to your buddy Closes the door, mac, leaves Fucking, starts poking me in my chest.

Speaker 2: 47:04

He's like let me tell you something, motherfucker, you ain't a detective in here. You keep talking the way you're talking. We'll put you where they'll never fucking find you. You didn't hear anything. You certainly didn't see anything. Forget about what you heard. So I'm like in my mind I'm going you dirty, motherfucker, you're covering for these guys. They committed murder and you're covering it up. In my mind I'm saying it because you ain't a cop in here. You're a fucking convict. You want to go home. I said yeah, I want to go home because you got 48 hours. Shut the fuck up and forget what you heard. I said I don't know. It's killed me to this day. I said I don't know what you're talking about. He said that's a good boy, open up the gate, let Mac back in.

Speaker 2: 47:59

I never spoke about it Until I wrote End of Torah and then I wrote about it. I carried that shit for fucking almost 25 years with me Because I felt so guilty that I couldn't get justice for this guy. I know it's not a political show, but they fucking killed that guy man. They got away with murder and it's not right. I can't do nothing, that's the justice system. And I went home. But that last week it's not right. I can't do nothing, that's the justice system. And I went home. But that last week was the worst week that I ever had. I actually met when my mother and brother and sister picked me up. They took me to a diner and I met the counselor. She came to our breakfast and she's like well, you know how I feel about you. I said you know how I feel, I really liked her. So I said it's a problem. I mean, I don't want to get you in trouble.

Speaker 2: 49:05

She's like well, maybe we can meet in a few months when things die down. And I met with her like three times upstate, not knowing I was violating my parole because I was supposed to stay in my county and we wrote each other letters. She didn't hide one of her letters, good enough. So the last time that I saw her she was all fucking bruised up and I knew that she had come to one of our meetings with a broken arm and she said that she fell. So when I see her, I'm like what happened to you? She's like oh, I fell again. I said you're lying to me. Your fucking husband beat the fuck out of you. She's like Pete, he found one of the letters and these letters were very dirty. I'm like fuck. She said he's going to come for you. I'm like fuck. She said he's going to come for you. I'm like okay, no problem, I guess we can't see each other again.

Speaker 2: 50:18

I immediately go to my parole officer, who I was great friends with. He even tried to get me on, fight upon, but he couldn't do it. He knew I was screwed. He said listen, I know you got you got fucked. I tell him what happened. He tells me okay, if he shows up at your doorstep, don't fight him outside because he can lock you up. Drag him in the house and say that he was breaking in to your house and you were just guarding your house. I go okay, he got. Was it really cool?

Speaker 2: 50:54

He calls me up like three days later. He goes listen, you got to come in the uh, the correction officers are coming here to correct. They're going to question you. The guy actually called my house and he said motherfucker, I'm coming after you and when I get you they're going to bring you back here and you ain't going to be safe. Fuck, that's not good. So I called a few friends and I reported him for abusing I knew a few state police and told them what happened to her and asked them could you check some hospital records, because she had gone to the hospital a few times? And sure enough, it was listed. They said okay, no problem, we got your back. If anything happens, we know what to do with this guy. So my parole officer says all right, you got to come in here. You're going to have to answer questions. So there were three COs there and they're like so you know you violated your parole. I'm like what are you talking about? And I really didn't realize it.

Speaker 2: 52:12

So, like you left the county. I'm like I thought it was I can't leave the state. So, like you didn't tell your parole officer that you were going upstate to fuck somebody, like I had no idea I had to, which I really didn't, I thought it was I couldn't leave the state Because I always told them when I was going to my mother's at Pennsylvania. He's like the guy's like, well, you know we're going to violate you for that. You're going back to Oneida and you know that the woman that you were fucking excuse me is a correction officer's wife. She just got fired and we're going to put you in general power. On his floor I'm like, okay, this is not good. So I said, okay, he said you can do that, but before you do that, just know that he's going to be arrested for domestic abuse. So I have at my house several reports which I didn't have it. I just tried to call that bluff Several reports that his wife, who you just fired, was beaten by him and forced to say that she fell down the stairs. There's like six say that she fell down the stairs. There's like six reports that she fell down the stairs. She's either the most clumsiest woman in the world or a drunk, and she's neither. Guy goes all right, time out, time out. So they tell my parole officer, bring him outside. They must have called the guy, said listen, you really want to pursue this because you're going to have a fucking problem if we don't. We're not even going to make it back with this guy without you being in cuffs, because they knew that he was done. They came in, said okay, so this is the deal, you're never to see her again, don't go out of the county, continue your parole. And they pointed at my parole officer. He said but you're not his parole officer anymore. And they gave me a new parole officer who was kind of strict. But she even realized that I was screwed and I've had a problem.

Speaker 2: 54:34

I made my parole, I finished my parole and the problem I was that I had was I could never get work because I was a convicted felon, even though it was a nonviolent e-felony. They looked at it as I was a dirty cop and I had plenty of investigators that wanted to hire me and put me under their umbrella and they just didn't do it. I ended up getting a job a few years later with a private investigator that had a security firm. I didn't need a license at that time for security, or it was way back in the 90s for doing PI work. I worked under their umbrella. I coached with them in baseball our kids and I worked with them for 10 years. I became their lead investigator and they sold the business and I started writing so let me go back because you've covered a lot.

Speaker 1: 55:51

Were you so do you think that? So let me go back because you've covered a lot. So do you think that this individual was recruiting you for the?

Speaker 2: 56:02

white supremacist organization and he was a member of. By showing you this? That's a really good question. I never thought about it. I don't think he was. I think he was. Just he had come from a max and he had no fear and he hated black people. He just hated them and he hated a lot of people. He hated whites that weren't pure white, as they call it. He hit Spanish people and I don't think he was recruiting me. I think he was just kind of saying you may think I'm a small guy, but I got backing in here, so maybe he's saying, if you need it, like I didn't need it. And it's funny because when I was in, I didn't really cover my Riker Island when I was in the dorm.

Speaker 2: 57:06

I was in the dorm in the very beginning before I got let out on appeal. The night I went in, they put me in a cell. This was the judge, I have no doubt about it. Correctional officer comes to my cell and says listen, I'm moving'm moving you. I'm like where are you moving? Where are you moving? Now? This is my first night. I'm I'm freaking. It's like I'm moving you to a dorm a dorm.

Speaker 2: 57:43

You're gonna get me killed. And there's no. The only bars are to let the people out. There's nobody separate, there's no bars separating anybody. So are to let the people out. There's nobody separate, there's no bars separating anybody. So what are you trying to do? Get me killed. He goes. That's the orders I got, you go. Okay, this isn't going to be good. So I get up to the floor. There's an officer sitting at a desk and the officer that's bringing me up. Like I said, there's bars separating the hallway and the room, the dorm. Now I'm on the first front page of the news where it said judge my picture and me shaking a detective's hand. Some photographer took a picture of it and it says judge blast police brass for backing cop thief. That was the headline in the Daily News.

Speaker 1: 58:46

This is New York Daily News You're talking about In the post.

Speaker 2: 58:50

Okay, no less. I'm on the fucking front page. It's just like are you fucking kidding me? It's crazy. There's 14 guys at the fucking gate, black and Hispanic, and the guy that's in the front is holding up the paper Black and Hispanic, and the guy that's in the front is holding up the paper where it's me. So one of the officers said got new meat coming and it's a fucking cop.

Speaker 2: 59:23

So I'm like you can't fucking put me in there. Look at this shit, I'm not going to make it a fucking second in there. Look at this shit, I'm not going to make it a fucking second in there. Officer's like you got to go in. I'm like fuck you, I'm not going in. And now when I get really pissed off, my eyes well up, they tear up. I'm not crying, it's anger. So I'm like I'm not going in, motherfucker. And I fucking shove the correction officer, fucking throw him right on his ass. He gets up. He's so cool about it. He's like listen, if you show him, you're afraid they're going to kill you. I'm like charge me for assault, I'm going to hit you again. He's like you're not going to hit me. I said, fucking, recharge me. And I'm not thinking straight at that point. I just don't want to go in there. I said, fuck it. I went right to the front. I said listen, I didn't put any of you motherfuckers in here, so whatever's going to happen is going to happen. I don't know why I said that. I said but I guarantee you, I'm going to take, you're going to kill me in there, but I'm going to take three of you with me. I don't know what came over me to say that. Probably God, like I know it's not a religious show, but he gave me the power to say that at that point.

Speaker 2: 1:00:50

So there was this black guy that was 6'3" skinny guy named Country, and a Spanish guy next to him who was also the president of the Nieders. They're standing together. He said open up the gate, open this up, and if any of you motherfuckers touch them, you're going to deal with us. They were controlling the house, as they call it. They had the Spanish guys in control and country had the black guys in control. So they open it up. I walk in and I go over to the country and I'm like listen, man, I ain't giving you my fucking sneakers. That's what I heard. They steal people's sneakers. He's like dude, I don't want your sneakers. Man, you're right. You didn't put any of us in here. We put ourselves in here. You were a cop a long time ago. You didn't put any. You didn't put any. He didn't put any of you idiots in here. So stop the bullshit. He's one of us. I became really good friends with that guy, good friends with the nieta guy. They know I'm going home to go get my appeal the next day. This was like I was in for about 14 days.

Speaker 2: 1:02:12

Guy Country's only 19 years old. I'm 27 or 28 years old at the time. He always kept watching me look at my pictures of my kids. He said Pete, can I talk to you for a second? I said yeah, sure. And then the guy from the Nia. He said when Country's done, I want to speak to you. Second, I said yeah, sure. And then the guy from the Nia. They said when country's done, I want to speak to you. I'm like okay. He's like I know you're a family man. I don't have a mother or father. Swear to God. He said this Do you think you can adopt me when you get out? I'm like, country, I'm honored by that. You want me to do that and I would. But you're 19 years old. I'm not even 10 years older than you. I said I'll stay good friends with you and I'll help you any way I can, but I can't adopt you. You're 19 years old. You're a man. You're 19 years old, you're a man. I appreciate it Really. Good, good guy. Here's my number.

Speaker 2: 1:03:14

We spoke to each other a lot after I got home. Now the other guy goes can I talk to you for a second? I'm like sure he's like listen. First thing I want to let you know is there's a new guy coming in. Whatever you do, whatever you see, whatever you hear, don't get involved. Sit on your bunk and don't do anything. It's going to be bad. Come on, man, he's like. Second thing is he's the president of the Nieta. He has a pipeline through the whole prison. They're able to send kites. Tell us what.

Speaker 1: 1:03:53

Nieda is for people that don't know.

Speaker 2: 1:03:55

Nieda is a Spanish gang that they control the prisons. But they're very powerful. Outside of New York City, california, they're all over the place and they portray that they are a criminal enterprise. But they are. But in prisons they do control the prisons. At that time they did. They controlled the prisons. They really did. They controlled the blacks and the Spanish. At that time they were very powerful.

Speaker 2: 1:04:28

They all wore rosary beads. A lot of them had the tattoo of the rosary on them and this guy was the president and he said listen, I sent out a kite to the other leaders on the floors and we took a vote. We know how cool you are and you kept quiet. You didn't ride anybody out. We want to make you an honorary member of the need. I'm like what he's like. Yeah, you could become an honorary member. All you got to do is say yes, I'm like I forgot. I think his is say yes, I'm like I forgot. I think his name was Jose. I'm like Jose, I can't do that. I came in here alone. I just want to go home alone. I'm honored, but you know I can't be a part of a gang. It's like. All right, I understand, cool, he goes, but I'm going to let you know we got your back. Like, all right, I understand, cool, he goes, but I'm going to let you know we got your back. So, right there, I'm going. Fuck, I'm going to owe people favors. And I said, am I going to owe you something? He goes. Can you just do me one favor and you'll never be asked of anything else. I said what he said. My daughter broke her eardrum two nights ago. She's in the hospital. Can you send somebody? He told me what hospital in Brooklyn? Can you send somebody over just to check on her and maybe bring her a teddy bears? I said done. Called my ex-wife. She went right over to the hospital, sent and gave her a teddy bears and chocolates. Told me that she was alright. I told him and I called her. I said everything is good. He said you're good, thank you.

Speaker 2: 1:06:22

There were several times when I was upstate where I had several of the other guys say Jose sends his regards, we got you. I never. I said thank you and I just kept walking that night when that new guy came in. He was convicted of raping a child. So they have this thing called the fucking gauntlet and they gave him a choice. The guy, the other guy. The guard called out and said new me, child abuser, rapist Said it, said it just like that.

Speaker 2: 1:07:08

All these guys lined up in front of their cots and they were fucking putting shit in their pillowcases. Whatever they had they were putting in there Could be cans, you name it, whatever was metal not metal to kill you, but heavy things, books. They're all standing in front of their fucking their cots. I'm sitting, I'm not doing anything. He goes up to the guy. The guy comes in. He says you're going to have two choices. Now the guard leaves. We're either going to bring you in there into the bathroom we're going to stab you to death Because you ain't going to live in here, or you're going to run the gauntlet. Now the black guys are part of the still Because everybody hates rapistsists and child rapists. Forget about it.

Speaker 2: 1:08:07

Guy picks the gauntlet. He's running and he's getting halted by these guys swinging the pillows. He's getting hit in the balls, the groin, the stomach, the head. He makes it to the end and Country's waist. He fucking pounds him, picks him up, kicks him. You got to go back down to the other guy now. You got to run back. So he ran up one side and then had to run up the other side. You guys get crushed.

Speaker 2: 1:08:44

He makes it to the other guy and falls and the other guy goes like this All the other guys. They follow him. They go to the bathroom and they fucking raped him with toothbrushes. They stuck about 16 toothbrushes up his ass and beat him again and the guards picked him up and dragged him out. The guards let it happen. That's fucking justice man. That's prison justice. That's the justice man. That's prison justice. That's the way it is. But I'll tell you right now, listening to that if you've never heard a male scream in pain or yell is one of the most disturbing things that you'll ever hear, and I heard that that night. So it was always when I was going home that these crazy things happened.

Speaker 1: 1:09:50

Do you think and you've explained when you were going to be released about the football game in the yard being stabbed and the other injury guard being stabbed and the other injury? Do you think? The stabbing was intentional, because you were getting out and it was to send a message when you get out.

Speaker 2: 1:10:11

Yeah, absolutely, Because they knew, first of all, like I said, I kept my hand here, so they weren't going to be able to cut me. And it's called the going away present. Because you're going home, they're still staying in. So they're angry. Because you're going home, they're not. So you're going home, we're going to leave you with a little fucking present to remind you of where you were. And I didn't want that fucking cut on my face and I didn't want that fucking cut on my face. So the guy thought that the punch stab whatever the fuck you want to call it was deep enough to. I don't think he wanted to kill me. He wanted me to know you've been here. And they got their point through Pardon the pun.

Speaker 1: 1:11:12

Yeah, yeah, that's. Life imitates art. I guess that's probably the best way to describe it. When you got out, you went to work as a PI, but that folded and you just started to touch on writing your book, which, if you haven't read it, end of Tor. It's about Pete, it's about his career, his prison and his future. I highly recommend it. So when you got out, what prompted you to start writing? I mean, you know, you obviously got my attention because of your experience in criminal justice, but how did you come about to writing? And I'd like you to talk about that, if you could. And I'd like you to talk about that, if you could, and also talk about your new book and about what it's about too. And I know that it's been number one on the Amazon in the law enforcement category and great reviews that I've read. I haven't had a chance to read it. It's one of your thicker ones.

Speaker 2: 1:12:23

Yeah, it's a long one, I will read.

Speaker 1: 1:12:23

I haven't had a chance to read it. It's one of your thicker ones, so I will read it, but why?

Speaker 2: 1:12:33

don't you tell us about how you got into the literary world and your latest book? Well, when I was in, I was kind of. I think I was inspired by Mac who was writing his appeal. He was so sharp, the guy could have been a lawyer. That's how sharp he was. And you know we would write notes, letters to our friends and wives, and I would always give him my letter before, and he'd be like you made a million mistakes, yet you got to become a better writer, which I didn't when I was in prison. I didn't give a shit. But then something came to me. I said you know, mac, I think when I get out.

Speaker 2: 1:13:20

I'm going to write a book about what, how I got fucked. And he was like Pete, you truly got fucked. And because I was, I was able to get all my my minutes to everything and all of my paperwork. And I showed him it and he read it and he said you got screwed. And I said you know what and I think I'm going to make the cover A judge's gavel shattering my shield behind a cell. He said holy shit, that would make a nice cover. So that was always the cover always came first to me in my head and with all my books I always try to do. When we did your book, I tried to do your cover first because I get inspiration from it, and I didn't write the book right away. My kids were young. I waited for all my kids to be out of school and one of the reasons was I didn't want to put them through anything. I didn't want anybody to relive that shit and I didn't want my mother to relive it.

Speaker 2: 1:14:37

Or my family had no idea what I did in the street, or my family had no idea what I did in the street. They had no idea how wild I was in the street and my family really didn't, my kids didn't. Really my ex-wife did, and my ex-wife was always against it and I said I want my fucking gold shield. This is the only way to get it Is to make arrests. And she wasn't that kind of cop. She strove a boss and she wasn't that kind of cop. She strove a boss and she was happy with that. So after about five years ago, I started writing End of Thor. My brother is a narrator for Audible, so he's done about 150 books. So I sent him, I wrote the first book and the first draft of the book. He read it and he's like Pete first of all, I will never read this book on air for you and you can't submit this book. He said do you know any other word but the F word? You got to rewrite it and be more articulate, which I did. It took me about two years to write. So the first book came out. I started writing it in 2017. And the first book came out in 2019. And the first book came out in 2019, and I was lucky enough to go with it. A small, traditional publisher Book went number one and I made a little money on it and COVID happened and I had a lot of friends that said listen, you need to write a second book about the prison. You just touched on it. Cops have to know about what it's like to be in prison because that will make them think twice if they're going to try to be dirty. And my argument with them was listen, that's something I'm not proud of. It's not. My proudest point of my life being a cop was I was proud to write that first book. They convinced me to do it. Covid happened and I actually wrote that book in six months and that book's called One Under. It was about me being in prison and a little bit about my life after and how. The laughter part, which I'm still living through, is how powerful a judge can be. Nobody realizes how powerful a judge can be. They hold an immense amount of power and the reason I say that is I about seven years ago no, six years ago after my buddy went out of business with after he sold his business with the investigation, I said you know what, let me reapply and try to get an investigation job. And I applied for the corporation, not the corporation council, the people that defend people that break the laws of New York. And I got called back and they said listen, we love your resume. You beat out about 100 detectives. There's three candidates that we're going. We're going to get picked two. And are you ready for your interview?

Speaker 2: 1:18:27

Now the interview had six people in there, three people on each side, and I got to ask questions and I answered them pretty good. The last question kind of threw me for a loop. They said well, listen, if you're on call that one night and you get called and they tell you that you have to help or take pictures or gather evidence of a child rapist, what are you going to do? I wanted to say I want to beat the fuck out of the guy, but I couldn't. I wanted to say I want to beat the fuck out of the guy, but I couldn't. I said, well, I'm going to make sure that that guy gets the best representation that he can and I'll gather as much evidence for him as I can. So they were recording everything the public defender's office. So once they put it off, they said listen, because four of them were investigators, two of them were the lawyers for them. They all said listen, we know what you'd want to do to that guy, but you do have to try to help him. And it was the right answer. We'll get back to you either today or tomorrow and let you know how you did.

Speaker 2: 1:19:45

They called me like within two hours and they said you got the job. So I'm thinking okay, they must have done a background check on me and I passed it. I said the main office is going to send you some paperwork. Sign it, fill it out and sign it. When do you want to start it? They gave me two dates. I said I'll start in August. Fill out the paperwork. Of course, one of the questions is have you ever been convicted of crime? I said yes. He said it doesn't exclude you Explain what happened. So I explained it and I wrote about this guy, judge Andreas, that sat on the appellant division.

Speaker 2: 1:20:28

Little did I know that Judge Andreas became the head of the appellant division and he still is. He wrote back to them and said do not hire this man. How are you going to put him on the stand if he's been convicted of falsifying business records. He's going to get torn apart, which I wouldn't. I know how to defend myself. I've been on the stand a thousand times. They said we can't hire you. They sent me that letter the day before I was supposed to go to work in a fucking email. So I'm thinking I bought suits, I bought a new jacket. I'm like all right, I got the job Great, like 18 hours before. I'm like are you kidding me? You do this now. Why didn't you just tell me a month ago so that's how powerful judge is on man. Judge is just.

Speaker 1: 1:21:28

Oh yeah, no, I know that I've dealt with the Marshal Service, with the judiciary, and I can tell you, very powerful, especially a US District Court judge, which the majority, you know which they're there for life.

Speaker 1: 1:21:47

Let me jump around because I want to ask you about the new book and what prompted you. By the way, I think your best book which I enjoyed other than mine was Second to None, where you really wrote about the New York City and New York police officer detectives and what they are. That's the best one that I've read. Okay, we'll talk about that on a future and I hope to those some of those guys as guests I just thought it was today's society would enjoy reading such a book about the history of detectives. But let's talk about the, the one you've written now, the, the homicide book on the manual on how to do it, and what prompted you to write that?

Speaker 2: 1:22:46

Well, what prompted me was Tell us about the book, the name and all that I don't have it.

Speaker 2: 1:22:50

Okay, the name of the book is called the Godfather of Homicide and honestly I cannot take all the credit for writing the book. I have a co-author that he did a lot of work in it His name. The book is about Vernon Gebbeth. He was a lieutenant commander, he's retired in the NYPD and he is the godfather of homicide. He is one of the greatest detectives homicide detectives that NYPD ever had. He's written a textbook that's in its fifth edition called the Practical Guide of Homicide and has all cases in it and guidelines of what to do and detectives and cops and throughout the nation. He taught for many years, of course, and he's taught thousands of detectives on how to solve crimes and homicides.

Speaker 2: 1:23:59

Writing your book. I was going in between and his book ended up being close to. It was 401 pages but I was able to cut it down from 500 pages Because Amazon has some guidelines with books that are that heavy and that not heavy but that long. They kind of put a book into. They put it in a kind of they make it. They want you to make it into a textbook. That's not a textbook what I wrote. I wrote about the man's career, so he had to cut it down and it's about his career and some of the cases that he did. And he brought in Larry Davis, the guy that shot six cops in the Bronx, and that was his last case and one of the reasons he retired, because he went against the grain. He was the kind of lieutenant that had his men's back. He's what's called a cop's cop. He was loyal to his men and we're hoping you and I are hoping to get him on the show because he's a great guest. He's a great guy.

Speaker 2: 1:25:21

That book actually did take a piece of my soul out of me because I had my agent who was also my editor. She was also my promoter. She had just edited the book a few months prior and she called me and she said we had a Zoom meeting and she said Peteete, the book is ready, I just want to reread it and I'm going to send it to you in the email in the afternoon she said I just haven't been feeling too good, I've had some brachitis, but I feel better. And hi, I'm just logging in early to see if it's working. Hello, hi. And she passed away that day and I just didn't like.

Speaker 2: 1:26:13

I said she was my agent and my. She was everything to me when it came to my career. She did everything, she handled all of my writing and, uh, that threw me for a loop. I had a I couldn't get. I never got the email of what she finished for me, so I had to with Vernon.

Speaker 2: 1:26:38

We had to edit the book ourselves and rewrite a lot of it, and then I had to format the book, which I had never done. I never formatted a book, so I had to teach myself how to do that. I got the cover done and it passed all the regulations through Amazon and it went number one the next day. The first day it went out, which was good Cause he has a strong following. I have a very strong following, so you know the book's doing well and your book is still behind blue eyes, which still on the top hundred for where we put that book out in December. So it's no, we actually put it out a little earlier than that. It's seven months straight it's been in the top 100, which is a huge accomplishment. I want to shoot to make sure it gets to the year mark where you are in the top 100 and, hopefully, the top 20.

Speaker 1: 1:27:43

I got one more question before we sign off for today. Out of all your cop writers, or cops that you've written about and that who bothered you the least? You?

Speaker 2: 1:27:59

You, you, 100%. You were pretty much in agreement with everything we did and if I needed help with something, you kind of put it into a context and a text for me and I broke it down to how I thought it should be written. And you were great to work with and, like I've written, second to none prompted me to write about two of the officers that I had written about in that book Tim Kennedy and Greg Quinn. I just thought that their stories were extraordinary and their careers were extraordinary. Tim Kennedy was actually the partner of one of the guests you're going to have on Ralph Friedman. And then I wrote about you and I have written, and I have written 16 books. I've written 16 books.

Speaker 2: 1:29:09

I'm working on a book now. It's not a true book, it's a fiction, but it's based on a lot of research I've done on a lot of agents ATF agents that infiltrated motorcycle gangs. So it's going to be about an undercover that infiltrates a motorcycle gang, a very violent one, and it's going to have a different twist than most of them do, and I'm actually looking forward to that one because I kind of I know what it's like to be an undercover, so it's easy for me to write the undercover role. So I just had to do a lot of research on MC gangs and one percenters and what they're all about. I had to do a lot of research on motorcycles themselves Arlie Davidson's I have a good friend that's.

Speaker 2: 1:30:02

The guy can literally put a bike together blind. So he's helping me with that. And I'm going to write a third book about myself and that book is going to be called the Informants and it's going to be about several of my several cases that my that I had really really really good informants on. And I'm hoping to do a fourth book which will involve you, where we can get my clemency and the name of that book if I get it will be called either Pardoned or Clemency and that will be how we went about getting it and what it's like to get my name back. Because that, to me, is the most important thing is, I want my name back and I want to be able to tell people yeah, I'm retired, I didn't get fired, you know what I mean.

Speaker 1: 1:31:00

You have a tremendous amount of friends in the law enforcement community, including myself, who will support your clemency 100%, which you've been through, and you know that fourth book will get published. Okay, pete.

Speaker 2: 1:31:21

Thank you, I appreciate it, tom.

Speaker 1: 1:31:23

Yes, and thank you for coming on today and I look forward to having you and Jeff does too periodically coming on on important shows that we have on the system. Because you've lived the entire end of it and you're candid with your opinions. I would say there's no future in politics for you, but at the same time, honesty and integrity is important. So again, thank you very much.

Speaker 2: 1:31:59

I believe that very much. I believe that it's being on both sides of the fence.

Speaker 1: 1:32:10

I'm able to know how everybody like law enforcement and the inmates feel yeah, and I think I think. Before we close, I think one more thing's important. Pete has lost over 72 pounds by walking his dog. Okay, and he walks his dog 10 miles a day. I couldn't imagine. Well, I'm sure the dog looks forward to it for the first two or three miles but wants you to stop at a supermarket or a stop and shop to get him a little snack along the way.

Speaker 2: 1:32:41

But again, I get him water on the halfway mark.

Speaker 1: 1:32:44

We got it down to a system? Yeah, we don't.

Speaker 2: 1:32:48

All right, and I even spoke to you when I'm at church saying hey, I'm at church and I'm wrestling with Leo.

Speaker 1: 1:32:56

Yes, all right, pete, good night. Thank you very much.

Speaker 2: 1:32:59

Thank you so much. Thank you, Jeff. Talk to you soon.

Speaker 1: 1:33:02

Bye.