Speaker 1: 0:00

With us today for Justice, then Justice. Now we have former police officer detective author Pete Dron. Pete's going to talk today about his criminal justice experiences and his literary career. And his literary career. Pete is the author of this probably heard of this book Behind Blue Eyes. The book is about an accurate 14 chapters of my career with cases and I'm very grateful to him and he wrote it the right way. It covers the whole system of everything that I did, from a local police officer to being a marshal service employee, customs and I, finishing it off with ICE and continuing onward with consultancies with federal agencies and with private investigations supporting law enforcement, along with also the community of offender relief.

Speaker 1: 1:18

And that His books. This is his book End of Tor. It's a very emotional book that he wrote about himself and his struggles and successes in the criminal justice system. The other one that there's other books too. He's written all kinds. The other one that there's other books too. He's written all kinds. He's a board winning author on Amazon and second to none chronicles personnel in the New York City Police Department with valor. So it's my pleasure to sit here with Jeff Thomas, the producer. Talk to my good friend, pete how are you this afternoon. All right, tom, how?

Speaker 2: 2:06

are you this afternoon? All right, tom, how are you nice to see you guys. Hey, jeff, how are you? Hey? I just want to say that I wasn't a detective, I was police officer. I was striving to be a detective and um, my story will tell you why that got derailed. I'll go into detail with that. Um, and my story will tell you why that got derailed. I'll go into detail with that.

Speaker 3: 2:30

What do you want to know? So, pete, I know we're going to talk about a ton of things, but I always kind of like to start off with you know where you're from. What was growing up like? How was your childhood? What were your parents like?

Speaker 2: 2:48

You know. Just give me a little brief rundown of how it all started for you. I'm from Merrick, long Island, and grew up with a single mother. My father passed away when I was 11 months old and I'm the third child of three and I was grew up on, like I said, a very strict Sicilian family. And you know Sunday Italian dinners and my grandfather was basically the ruler of the house. Didn't matter where we were, whatever he said went, they spoke. A few times during each Sunday dinner They'd speak in Italian. My grandmother and grandfather they were both from Brooklyn. Also they actually lived a few blocks away from each other. Never even knew it until they got older and when they started going out they realized how close they blocks away from each other. Never even knew it until they got older and when they started going out they realized how close they lived next to each other. So I grew up with really good morals, always the respect to police.

Speaker 2: 4:01

I was pretty talented in baseball. I was an above average baseball player. In baseball I was an above average baseball player and I went to college to play baseball at Dowling College in Oakdale, long Island. It was a D3 school but we played D2 in the D2 division. So the competition was pretty tough and I was talented enough to where my coach had got me a walk-on tryout with the Seattle Mariners. When the Mariners were an expansion team, they just came onto the scene and I did well in the tryout, well enough to get a potential contract. I went to the tryout on my own and, to be honest with you, I really didn't understand the contract when I was reading it. It just had a lot of legal things that I just had no idea what it was talking about. I should probably should have paid more attention in school. So I called my coach and he got on the phone with the main person and he said he would be my acting agent if they could just hold over the weekend, because my, my team was in a tournament which was which is called the knickerbocker tournament and the mariners gave me permission to go back to long island to play in that tournament and then I would fly back with my coach. He would be my agent for the time being and I was going to sign. I was actually. I knew one thing I was going to get a $25,000 signing bonus because I had hit a few balls during a tryout and they knew I would be.

Speaker 2: 5:58

I was a power hitter from the right side and I was a switch hitter and from the left side. I don't want to sound conceited but I was a very, very good contact hitter on the left side. I'm ambidextrous but I predict I right lefty, I shoot lefty and I do a lot of things with both hands. And I went back to Long Island with my coach and I did play in that tournament. And I went back to Long Island with my coach and I did play in that tournament and we made the finals and I probably would end up being the MVP of that tournament.

Speaker 2: 6:33

And in the last game of the championship the ball was hit over my head. I was checking the distance between the ball and the fence and I ran into the fence. I didn't check the distance correctly and when I went to jump up to get the ball that was going over the fence, hit it and destroyed my throwing shoulder and pretty much lost everything. I couldn't throw a ball the correct way and that was one of my strong suits. I had a very strong arm and I lost my scholarship, lost the contract and I ended up doing the thing that I love sick and I became a cop and I took the test at a young age. I took the test at 20 years old and by 22 years old I was walking a foot beat.

Speaker 2: 7:28

And my first day as a trainee I had a great, I had a really good, an amazing training officer. And I was a kid from Long Island. When I drove into the city that first day it was like 5 o'clock in the morning and I had never seen attics. I was in the middle of Harlem and it was a culture shock. To tell you the truth, I probably should have driven in there earlier to get a feel for the area I was going to work in, but I just didn't think that way at that time.

Speaker 2: 8:13

And this guy's name was Satch Cotto. He looked like the Iron Sheik. I don't know if you guys remember the Iron Sheik from wrestling. He had that hand mustache. It was waxed bald head. He actually may have been bigger than the Iron Sheik, the guy. He was a bodybuilder, he was just a piece of iron and he did some time in the Vietnam War and you could just tell that this guy had seen things.

Speaker 2: 9:05

And we had to remove a person off a rooftop. We were in the lunchroom and the first time he picked me first, I was with five other people and there were three other training officers it was him, another guy and a girl training officer, woman training officer and he pointed at me. He said you're going to go first and I was like, okay, great, this is just what I need. Why can't somebody else go? And he said you're going to play the perp on the that's trespassing on the roof. And I'm and he was going to be the cop. So he said, just like, kind of mouth off to me, do whatever you know, say whatever you want to say to me, but crouch in a corner and I'm going to move, I'm going to make you move. I had no idea what I was doing.

Speaker 2: 10:01

So he comes up to the roof supposedly the make-believe roof and he pokes me with his nightstick. He says hey, buddy, you got to move. Now. I had to kind of resist. So I was like, hey, man, just leave me alone, get the fuck away from me. Excuse my language. Within a second I was picked up off my feet, pressed against the wall and I had a hand on my throat and under my chin and he's like you're going to fucking move or I'm going to throw you off the roof, like OK, ok, and I was. I got to tell you I was humiliated and when I get, and I was pissed, when I get pissed, my eyes start to water, like that's how I know I'm really pissed off. He said okay, go outside, you're going to be the cop. Give me a minute to prepare. So he calls me in. Now he's the perp and I'm the cop and I poke him with my nightstick and I'm like hey, buddy, you know you got to move. Now you got to move. He got up so quick and went to grab me that I don't know if you remember, toby, that the nightsticks that they gave you were like crap. They were made of pine and they broke easy. It wasn't a Coca-Cola, coca-cola is a heavy oak nightstick which I got the next day. He went to charge me and I pulled my hand out and I cracked him across his leg with the stick. My stick broke and he's like hold up, hold up, hold up, end of scenario, end of scenario. And I was like sorry, sorry, I didn't mean to hurt you. He's like no, you didn't hurt me. The guy had, his legs were like tree trunks. So he's like I'm taking him with me for the first day of patrol. As I go, jesus, I'm in trouble man.

Speaker 2: 12:07

So we drive to the Washington Carver houses and I had never seen a project, guys, never. And this project that we went into the hallways, the hallway lights were all broken. The hallway lights were all broken. So the stairwells stairwell lights, I should say were dark. You could see what you were doing, but it was pretty scary. And the walls, they were all graffiti. So he's like we don't take elevators, we walk up and then we walk back down. There's two entrances to each hallway. So you walk the stairwell, one person walks one side, the other person walks the other, and when you reach the following floor, you tap on the side of the wall that you're on to let the guy that you know, let him know, let your partner know, that you're okay and I had gotten a nightstick from somebody.

Speaker 2: 13:17

So we reached the rooftop and once you get to the rooftop, now you're together again and actually the roof landing, and on the roof landing there was all brown stains and yellow stains. I was like what the hell is that? It's like this is where the and it's it stunk. He's like this is where the addicts relieve themselves after they shoot up. I wanted to throw up. I got to tell you I wanted to puke right there. But I'm like don't puke, don't show them that you're weak, get on the rooftop and then breathe real air. So we got on the rooftop. He was telling me some pretty wild stories that he had been involved in. I was asking him about his bars on it on his uh, his metals on his it's called a rack on it on his uh chest and he was telling me about the stories.

Speaker 2: 14:17

So before we left the roof he said listen, the main thing you got to do is, when you're leaving the building, just make sure you look up because people will throw air mail at you. Air mail is people are throwing stuff off the roofs or to hit you, or stuff out of their windows and I'm not talking about paper things, they're throwing bottles, whatever they can get their freaking hands on. They're going to throw at you. They're trying to hit you in the head. So we get to the bottom and he kind of put his hand out and says you go first.

Speaker 2: 14:51

And I went and about eight feet I got out, eight feet to the left of me, to the right of me. I'm sorry I heard this loud explosion. I thought it was a shotgun blast. I'm sorry. I heard this loud explosion, I thought it was a shotgun blast. I actually dove out of the way. I knew how to do, like a dive and a somersault. Come out of it with a somersault. And I did that and I pulled my gun in. I thought that I was being shot at.

Speaker 2: 15:21

And he's yelling holster your weapon, holster your weapon. And I'm on a knee. I'm like where the fuck are they? Where are they? Scared, shitless. And he says look to the left, there's a cinder block. Someone had to hurl the cinder block from the roof. They waited for us to leave the roof. They took a cinder block that was already there and they threw it off the roof at me. It literally missed me by eight feet. If it hit me I would have been dead. So he picked me up. He's like what did you learn today? I'm like always look up, always look up when you're going in or out of a building up, always look up when you're going in or out of a building.

Speaker 2: 16:06

So when I got in my car that night I was like what am I getting myself involved in? I'm a kid from Long Island. This is like a. It's a war zone and that's what it was. People don't understand. People think war is war overseas. It's an urban war in the streets. It's you versus them, and them is the drug dealers and the criminals, the people that are murdering people, committing robbery, burglary, you name it. It's the cops against the bad guys. It used to be cops against the robbers, but there are more than robbers out there. In my case, it was me against the drug dealers and the guys that had guns.

Speaker 2: 16:53

I met a later on in my career, about two years later, I met two guys from the 3-2 precinct. They probably were two of the best cops I ever encountered Terry McGee and Tommy Barrett and they were the guys that taught me how to make gun columns and what to look for and how to spot things. And from then on I became a narcotics cop. Still in uniform, I didn't work in a unit, I worked in my own unit and I was making. I was always on rooftops. I hardly ever. I really wasn't a well-rounded cop, I was just a collar cop and it used to piss the bosses off because most of the collars that I made were off project. I was a housing cop and they wanted the collars being made in the projects. What I was trying to explain to them is listen, the drugs are not in the projects. They may be being hidden in the project, but the only way you find that out is if you flip somebody and you get them to turn and become an informant to tell you where the drugs are in the project. Drugs were being dealt on the street, across the street from the project, so I would go up on the project rooftops look down. I'd stay up there for hours until I spotted a good deal and a dealer that was making a lot of transactions and then my partner and I we would go down and we would make the collar my partner.

Speaker 2: 18:26

At the time when I went back up to, I honed my skills actually from after I got through my field training, I went to a downtown Manhattan, alphabet City, and that's where drugs were running rampant. It was mainly heroin but some crack and you walked the beat by yourself in the projects and I honed my skills of becoming this narcotics cop. I bought a nice power mini binoculars and I'd go down, I'd watch drug deals, go down myself and grab these guys and they'd be across the street. But I didn't really care, I would just write in the report they were across the street from so-and-so building. So I taught myself how to do that there.

Speaker 2: 19:17

And then I was transferred to Harlem where that became my main precinct for a little while. My main precinct for a little while. I partnered up with a guy that he was looking to become a instructor in the police academy. But I kind of swayed him into my, my way of thinking and because I the only thing I loved, collaring, and I was making anywhere between five to seven collars every week, between 14, 15 to 20 collars every month and a year I was probably averaging between 150 to 200 collars every year, more on the 150 side. But I was usually in the top three of leaders of collars and I really really started making big collars. I taught myself a little on how to turn people and how to get them to become informants, street informants and I realized that I couldn't pay them with the department's money because first of all I was in uniform still. So I started paying them out of my pocket because I was making up for it with.

Speaker 2: 20:35

I was getting the overtime so I didn't really care. I was getting double an hour for overtime and back then court was 24 hours. So there were times my cousin worked down at court the court section and she would come out. She would see me. She'd be like you want me to hide your paperwork until you want to go, you can just go into my, my desk and put it on the top when you want to. So I was doing sometimes I'd stay at court for 24 hours, 36 hours, and I would go actually run. I would go into my regular tour. So I would do about 18 hours overtime, then go into my regular tour, then go back into overtime. So I was averaging probably anywhere between 100 to 200 hours every two months and the precinct didn't really like that. My commanding officer didn't like that at the time because I was beating a lot of people out in overtime and I was beating the sergeants, the guys in plain clothes. I just didn't care. I I didn't follow rules. I'll be the first one to say that I I kind of thought that the rules didn't apply to me. I made my own rules because in the street where I worked. There are no rules. There weren't rules. It was a jungle. It was a concrete jungle and if you follow the rules you were going to get killed.

Speaker 2: 22:13

I had my first shooting when I had three years on the job. I was actually arresting three people, had them against the wall. One of them had about seven vials of crack on him. I cut the other two guys loose and as I was locking up the guy with the seven vials, I heard the two-five precinct. They're like two blocks away from me and I heard shots and they were in a car chase and they were exchanging shots with another, with another car, and they were heading right down the street that I was on. So I uncuffed the guy because I saw the car coming, told my partner, stay in the car and get ready to to either ram them or cut them off. And he was waving me get in the car. I'm like no, I'm cutting this guy loose.

Speaker 2: 23:05

And I cut the guy loose and, sure enough, the car that was trying to get away. He took the turn. He saw me standing against a brick wall and the driver actually leaned out the driver's window. He was holding the wheel with his left and he leaned out and took two shots at me over his shoulder and one of the bullets whizzed right by my head. It hit the brick wall, a piece of brick lodged into my neck. I took three or four shots at him. I hit the car door.

Speaker 2: 23:41

I always try to tell people that I made that because he took a turn on the next street and he was going so fast that the car flipped. Car flipped like six times. It was a little Toyota, but he was going like 70. I always tell people that my shots made the car flip over, but it didn't. So these guys flipped the car so many times that I ran up on them. My partner drove the car on them. When they crawled out of the car they didn't have the shoes on. That's how bad they flipped the car. They were running on their feet in black socks. They were dressed in all black.

Speaker 2: 24:27

I had to cut through a, an abandoned lot which was littered with broken concrete from the building that went down broken bottles, hypodermic needles it was. It was basically. I was running through a minefield of dangerous things. I mean you could get stuck with a needle, cut your foot, cut your leg, you name it. If I fell I would have been screwed. So I got close enough to the guy where he was about 25 yards away from me. He was the driver. Again, he saw me, he looked back, took two shots. I emptied my revolver but I was running and I missed him.

Speaker 2: 25:09

These guys ended up running to 116th Street and they ran into an apartment building. They broke into an apartment. They took the family hostage, made them hide them and these guys hid in a tub. One of the neighbors saw where they he heard what was going on Called the police. We told ESU that it was our guys and the two, five precinct guys and perps I should say. Esu caught them right away, smashed their shotgun butts against the head, knocked them both out and we went back to the car and they had zip ties, duct tape, taser guns, money, coke, more guns. What they were doing was they had no idea what they were doing. They had no idea who they were screwing with. They went up to Washington Heights, which is basically the drug capital of New York City. It's where all the factions of the cartels operate and they were ripping off the Dominican and the of the cartels operate and they were ripping off the Dominican and the Colombian cartels. So we told them. When we started interviewing them we were like, do you have any idea who you were ripping off? And they were like no, just drug dealers. Like do you realize what would have happened if they caught you? You would have been like cut up with a chainsaw. They just had no idea. So I said you should be thankful that we caught you because you're alive.

Speaker 2: 26:58

That was my first shooting and I just kept collaring because I wanted to become a detective. I wanted to get into plainclothes first and then get my detective shield. Okay, I was not a popular person with the housing police. They did not like how I did my job. I was a little heavy handed and one night I was in uniform. I was told I was going into plainclothes like the next week and I had shot a dog working with plainclothes the week before.

Speaker 2: 27:37

And I was working at midnight with this guy, brett Bishop, and a big, big black guy, one of my best friends, great guy, and it was January 10th and it was like literally zero degrees out and I'm like Brett, I hope we don't have to hit anybody today because they're going to split open like a ripe pumpkin. He's like, yeah, let's just try to stay in the car tonight because it was freezing out and, sure enough, like 10 minutes into the tour I see a guy dealing. I'm like we got to grab him. The guy was like 4 11. He was he's a runt, but he had this, that big park jacket on. I got out of, we got out of the car. We started chasing him. He ran into a building. I chased him into the building. He ran up to the second floor.

Speaker 2: 28:25

And I heard locks going inside the door. I'm listening at the door and all of a sudden I hear like two or three pitbulls in there. I'm like Brett, we, brett, I can't kick this door down, we can't try to kick this door. And I just killed a dog last week and I'm getting ready to go into plainclothes. I can't get involved in anything like this. He's like all right, let's just call the issue. They'll take the door, they'll grab the guy. So we went down back downstairs, we called the issue we're waiting at the car. And, lo and behold, the guy came out of the building.

Speaker 2: 29:02

I had a nickname on when I was on the job. It was. It was batman, because I used to go on the rooftops and watch. So the drug dealers called me batman. I was pretty honored and, uh, this little guy's like hey, batman, I wish they let that dog out and it could have bit you on your ass. I'm like OK, so we chase him, we grab him, and I threw him against the wall and he was strong as hell. He had the strength of like four men and he was stronger than me and I was very active in Aikido. I was close to getting my brown belt and I could handle myself and Brett was stronger than I was, so I was going to pat him down and the guy kept pushing off the wall.

Speaker 2: 29:49

There was a Coke, 45 malt liquor quart half-filled and Brett was like you better just chill out, bro. He's like I ain't your bro, nigga. I was like, oh boy, this is bad. So Brett picked up the bottle, cracked it over his head Most men would have went down like Frazier right? This guy looked at us and he turned around to Brett and he's like is that all you got, nigga? I was like Brett, we are in so much trouble he's going to kill us. So I went to grab his waist and he reached into his waistband, pulled out a 45 automatic, turned around so quick, pistol, whipped me, ripped my nose off my face.

Speaker 2: 30:43

It was over here, all the way from here to here and it was so loud. It sounded like a baseball hitting a bat. It sounded like I got shot, and that's what Brett thought, because there was so much blood all over the bat. It sounded like I got shot, and that's what Brett thought, because there was so much blood all over the place and I dropped to my knee. I'm thinking to myself when I got hit how messed up I was when I was a cop. I'm like, damn, that guy didn't knock me out. I'm like Brett, that guy just shot me, I'm shot and I literally thought I was shot in the face because it happened like that. So the guys ran. I said go kill that mother effer.

Speaker 2: 31:27

So Brett got into a pursuit with them. They exchanged shots and I was wandering the street. I was in shock and every time my heart beat, blood would pump out through my face and I'm given central, the wrong location. Where I am, brett's putting over his chase. On the same channel. Cops are going all over the place because we called the 1013. Brett called the 1013, which is officer needs assistance. I called the 1085, which just officer needs assistance. I I called the 1085, which just said send some officers over 13. Is is bad, it's. It means that a cop got shot or cops are getting beat up or into in like a very violent altercation.

Speaker 2: 32:12

So as I was walking around, another housing car came up and they skidded and they skidded to a halt and this girl cop came out and she's like, jesus Christ, you're shot. I'm like, yeah, I'm shot and I forgot her name. But as I was talking, my heart beat and I sprayed her face with blood and I swear it looked like a B-movie, splatter movie, and I'm like, oh my God, I'm sorry, I'm sorry. At that time, back in those days, you had to worry about AIDS and the first thing I said to her was, like, don't worry, I just got tested, because I was always getting tested, because I got pricked a lot with needles and you would always ask the addicts you got a needle on you. I don't want to get pricked. I got pricked like two times. So I always got checked. I'm like I don't have AIDS, don't worry. And she's like, don't worry about it, just get in the goddamn car. We got to take you to the hospital and I mean I was just covered in blood. I said no, go to the um, go to the 1013, go help brett.

Speaker 2: 33:25

By the time we got to the, the guy had hid in a construction site and there had to be like 40 cop cars there. I went into the parking the, I guess parking lot where it was and I was bleeding all over the place. So they thought that the perp got shot, that Brett had shot the perp and he got hit. But it was me. It was me bleeding and IAB ended up showing up and the lieutenant actually warned all the cops if this prisoner comes back, I'm going to make sure that you all get locked up. So, like it was a really bad scene, they got me back into the car, they rushed me to the hospital. I ended up getting plastic surgery and I actually went back on patrol a few weeks later, made a really big collar, flipped the guy and called down to this guy, jimmy Haradopoulos, who was an ATF agent that was working with the anti-crime unit and he had noticed I was getting a lot of warrants from my CIs and all the warrants were good search warrants and I would always bring it to this one judge who I became very good friends with.

Speaker 2: 34:46

I actually was on a name-to-name basis with him and I probably brought about 40 warrants to him and all the warrants. I never had a bad warrant Toby. Each warrant had. We would always find drugs or guns and money. So when I would bring a warrant over he would tell me like after the first four he said listen, you no longer have to bring your CI down here, because usually you got to bring the CI with you and they got to swear out the warrant with you. The judge touched me so much that I didn't have to bring my CIs down. He just knew that these warrants were going to be solid.

Speaker 2: 35:31

And I think that the guys in anti-crime and their narcotic unit that I was trying to get into was called PSU at the time. The captain in that unit hated me Because I was making his guys look like fools because they just weren't getting as many warrants as I was and they weren't getting the amount of crack and heroin and the guns that I was getting off the street. And he had told my captain that I was good friends with Captain Lennox. I know that he's doing something that he shouldn't be. He just didn't really want to believe that my information was good and that was one of the reasons that he didn't want to get me in that unit. But he ended up bringing me in. Well, he really actually didn't, but I was supposed to go in.

Speaker 2: 36:26

But then the big collar that I had right after I came back from being hurt turned out to be a huge, huge collar and we got a lot of drugs. One of the guys there were 18 people that were listed in this book that we found a marble notebook and it actually turned out to be like I think it was like 30 people in total that were listed and we knew of 18, but it was like 30 people from the Bronx, queens, manhattan and Long Island. It was a big operation. It was called FEB and that stood for Fuck Everybody and these guys were doing probably around $500,000, $700,000 every week in business.

Speaker 2: 37:20

The main guy that was an enforcer, not the main guy, the main guy's brother-in-law was the enforcer. His name was KK. He said I'm going out shooting if a cop tries to collar me up. So right away I became good friends with the agent Jimmy and we were like well, we're going to do that one on his house. And we did. And we caught him in the bathroom going to the bathroom and he was shocked.

Speaker 2: 37:55

He had a gun. He had a gun ready on the couch that he usually sat on. It was 9mm and that's where we found the book and we ended up doing almost a year and a half long investigation. I was doing some buys and we confiscated about 200,000 vials of crack. We bought I'd say we probably bought about 150 of those probably about 28 weapons guns. We confiscated several cars and at the time I was the only housing cop in history ever to confiscate a house, a full home. So that case lasted like two years.

Speaker 2: 38:49

In between, when we were going, when we get ready to, three people most of them, most of the people pled out. Three of them 29 people pled out and three people most of them, most of the people pled out. Three of them 20 29 people pled out and three people decided to go to trial. One guy was facing life because he was a three-time loser, three strike deal and I felt bad for this guy. He was he, listen, he was. He was a criminal but we never saw him doing anything. He was just listed in the book as a lieutenant, I'm assuming when he was doing his job as a lieutenant in the street. He was very, very, very good at it because we never saw him, but he was one of the bad guys and he got locked up with them and he knew that he was going to be going for life.

Speaker 2: 39:40

The main guy, his name, was Leroy Sykes, leonard Sykes, leroy Sykes I can't remember his last name. He ended up turning on everybody and rolling on everybody. So when JB the guy John Bowman, which his name is JB he was going to court to fight his case. Sykes was in transit to go somewhere upstate and the marsh by accident put them in the same cell. It really wasn't their fault, we didn't the judge and we didn't tell the marshals listen, you've got to keep these guys separated Because we didn't think that Sykes was getting transferred upstate or wherever. Maybe he was in transit, I'm not sure and JB sliced him across his cheek and gave him a lot of stitches so that became a problem. Then we had to recharge him but he got found. All of them got found guilty. He got life and five or six guys got 20. Five or six guys got 20 and a lot of other people that either did proffer sessions with us or pled out. They got minimum for 10 years. So that was a really good case.

Speaker 2: 41:05

And uh, by then I was close to like 700. I had about 700 and something collars I had assisted in over another thousand. Back then I didn't have a boss when I was down at ATF. I was working with ATF in an office and the agents were my boss. So they would get me. They'd call me up and either group five I worked in group one, group five or one would say listen, we got a warrant. That wasn't my warrant. Do you want to go with us to execute it and get some overtime? So I, of course, I'd always pick up six or seven hours every two or three days.

Speaker 2: 41:46

It was great and I was learning how to do, you know, execute the warrants correctly, how to flip my informants, and I went to an entry school that was taught by the Navy SEALs. That was great, and I did a course with how to interview people with the FBI. So I learned a lot of stuff with them. I learned how to do the pen registers, the wire taps and really, really do good surveillance. And I had done a.

Speaker 2: 42:24

We were doing a surveillance on one of the guys in FEB and it was me and another cop and I saw the guy reaching in like onto his waistband and I thought he was putting you remember the change that? And I saw the guy reaching in like onto his waistband and I thought he was putting you remember the change that, the change counter that the ice cream guy used to have when we would go to the ice cream guy, yeah, so I'm like, oh, he must be feeding quarters and dimes and nickels in there. It's like I looked even closer and I'm like Jesus, he's loading a technology magazine, so he must have loaded like three of them and he handed them to a girl and the girl ran into this alleyway and then he split in his Mazda and I was like, glenn, let's go into the alleyway, let's try to grab her. I didn't get permission from Jimmy, which I should have. I should have told him listen, we're going to go, because she was a subject of the investigation. We wanted to grab all of them at once, but I knew that you know, obviously there was a gun there. So we followed, I followed her in and she went into this basement area of this apartment building and she was putting the magazines in this brown paper bag and, oh my god, I'm like charmaine, don't move inside the big. There was like 26 weapons, 26 guns. So I'm like, okay, we got to call jimmy and I called j guns. So I'm like, okay, we got to call Jimmy and I called Jimmy. And I'm like, listen, we got Charmaine, she got 26 guns, there's drugs in here and money. So she ended up flipping on everybody and she became a good witness in that case and I did some other cases while I was down there.

Speaker 2: 44:27

I did some other cases while I was down there I did undercover work against the freak mob who was selling those temporary tags that people get when they go to the au way and they were selling a drug called bazooka, which was crack cocaine reversed into pure form, and they were selling $20 dime bags and I purchased about $20,000 worth of that and we locked up three guys from the Greek mob. That was a good collar. And then I was the case was done and the agents kept telling me listen, why don't you roll over from the housing police and become an ATF agent? I was so headstrong on becoming a detective that I really didn't want to hear it. I'm like no, no, I just want to be a detective. And when I look back at it, I definitely should have rolled over and became an agent because they said, with my experience I probably could have. What do they start out with Toby? What grade Like grade 10? With ATF?

Speaker 1: 45:46

Well, yeah, with ATF or agent, it depends. If you were right out of college it would be a GS5. And then if it could be a 7. And the highest rate I'm talking, gs-9, to go over. Everybody takes a cut, like when they leave the police department. I did, you know, to become a marshal and it's just a fact. But over the progression of your career, your grade grows and you make more money on the way you know. So, yeah, that that's always an issue and you know, you were, you were, you know you, with the number of collars you had, uh, you know, 700. At that point it would be. They would probably hire you at the highest grade, you know, based on your background.

Speaker 2: 46:41

Yeah, that's what they were saying. They were telling me listen, you can get a really good grade and you'll just rise up quickly. And I was just pigheaded and it's like no, I just want to be a detective. I really wanted to stay down there as a detective and stay in group one, but that captain from the narcotics wasn't having it. He was good friends with the group supervisor at group one and he's like no, he's going back up to PSA 6 in Harlem, he can be an anti-crime and then he'll come into my unit. But I knew he was going to string me along for a while.

Speaker 2: 47:26

So my captains they were pushing for me to get my shield were pushing for me to get my shield. And this guy, Captain Blackman, who was the commanding officer, he's like you don't even have to go back to narcotics, I'm going to get you your shield, You're going to go right into the Bureau, which would have been fine, I just wanted my shield. So he said just work in plain clothes, I think I can get it for you. There's a promotion next month. I think. With everything that you did down there, I think we can get it. Just, you know, maybe show these guys what you learned and make some collars, but teach these guys on how to really make Nakata collars and gun collars and be better cops. And that's what I was doing for like the first two weeks. And I had one night I had to babysit my daughter. The next morning my partner couldn't take a collar, so there was a girl cop that wanted a collar and I said, okay, well, we can go up to the Heights and I'll do the undercover work. Just you two guys meaning her and my partner. I said, just ghost me, but don't stay close, Just keep me in eye contact, just so you know where I am, Don't lose sight of me, but don't follow me, because then they'll know.

Speaker 2: 48:58

So I had a black army jacket on a Gilligan. Remember the Gilligan hat, the fishing hat that he had? It was an Oakland Raider black Gilligan hat. And I told him okay, drop me off at 163rd Street, I'm going to go into the bodega, I'll get a beer, I'll empty it, put a little beer on my breath and I'll start walking the street. And I always made sure that there was a project close nearby and there were some rehabs that the housing police, the housing department, housing authority owned across the street or on the next block. So I was like all right, I'm safe to do this. So I was hoping that I would be able to make a deal on the street. But that didn't happen. You know, like I said, these were. These dealers were not the dealers from Harlem, you know the crack dealers. These guys were the real deal, the smaller factions of the cartels.

Speaker 2: 50:05

So one guy on 164th Street approached me on the corner, near the corner, and I saw a bodega and his building. He was about three buildings away from his building. He said you're looking for anything? I said, yeah, I'm looking, uh, for snow, which was cocaine. He's like all right, come with me. So he brings me to the stoop of his building and there's two guys on the right and two guys on the left leaning against the railings and right away I knew all four of them had weapons. I could see the bulges in their waistbands. I said, okay, this is the problem. They nodded at him. So I knew that he was either their boss or working with them. Either their boss or working with them.

Speaker 2: 50:56

So we walked through the hallway, the corridor, and he walked up three stairs and then there were two guys sitting on three more stairs to the left, but the door was on the right and he put the key into the door and he turned around and he said you know what you look like a cop. So I turned around. I didn't turn around. I said, listen, we're either going to do this or I'll go down to the corner I'll buy from another Colombian. We're either going to do the deal or we're not going to do the deal. I'm not going to waste my time.

Speaker 2: 51:32

I don't think he was expecting me to respond so quickly, but I had been in that situation anyway. So he turned, he said all right, you're cool, You're cool. And he looked at the other two guys and he was like what do you guys want? And they were like we want, we want some Coke. So as he's opening the door, I hear the door, the tumbler, click open. He opens the door crack. I hear two more voices coming in the hallway, very, very familiar voices, my partners, and they walk up to where I am and I look at them. I'm like I mouth them. What the fuck are you doing here?

Speaker 1: 52:11

you're gonna get me killed.

Speaker 2: 52:14

Guy turns to them what, what do you want? And they're like, hey, we'll take some drugs. And I was just like, okay, how does this guy not know that they're cops? They didn't have any idea what this was yeah, please have some drugs, sir. He's going to pull his gun and he's going to fucking shoot. That's it. So he opens the door and I am yuming at these guys. Toby, you know what a railroad apartment is? Yeah, yeah they're connected.

Speaker 1: 52:45

Yeah, yeah, everything is on the left.

Speaker 2: 52:48

All the rooms are on the left right. Jeff and the kitchen is the only room on the right. The living room is in the back, but in this instance the only room on the right the living room is in the back, but in this instance the back was actually the front of the building.

Speaker 1: 52:59

Yeah, it's kind of like there's a movie called Last Days of Disco, which is kind of a cool thing, from in the 80s, like 1982 and 80 through 84. And it was filmed in 96. And it has law enforcement, drug theme, studio 54 type thing, and the occupants that hung out together was a group of women that lived in this, and it talks about how they were set up. As far as the living arrangements, it's kind of like I don't know, pete, what did you just say, like those little houses, things, but they're all connected like that. Go ahead, you know it better than me, you live in here.

Speaker 2: 53:43

It was a full building, this building, and there were, I think, two or three rooms on the left. And so he goes in, the dealer goes into the kitchen and in the kitchen is there there's a big spindle the ones that the telephone companies use to run their cables and a chair and there was a door leaning against the wall and it was like a little sill, but it looked like they had walled up the windows. So he sits down and there was a scale on the table and he reached behind the door. So I quickly reached behind my back. Now I have no vest on, no radio with me, just my 9mm. And I'm reaching behind my back because I'm like he's going to grab a fucking gun. So as he's pulling out, he pulled out a big bag of Coke. So I slowly pulled my hand out to make it look like I was just fixing my pants. He's like all right, what do you want? I'm like let me have an eight ball, that's an eighth of an ounce. So he cuts out the Coke and the minute he did that, I kicked the spindle table and wedged them against the wall and I pulled my gun out. I said you're under arrest, pulled my shield out of my shirt. I'm like do not move, don't make any movements, you're under arrest, we're the police. I tell my partners pull your shield out, tell them that you're the police. I tell my partners will you shield out? Tell them that you're the police. He starts.

Speaker 2: 55:47

The dealer starts screaming in Spanish that we're doing a rip on him. I don't understand Spanish and I still don't understand it to this day. So I'm like Sharon Sharon was a Spanish girl. I'm like Sharon. What the hell is he saying? He's saying that we're doing a rip and with him screaming, the back of the apartment the windows were open where the fire escape was. So his soldiers heard that three or four seconds later they're up there trying to kick the door down. So I'm like Chris, keep your gun trained out on the door. We need to get rid of these two guys. We can't go through the door. We can't walk through the front door with them. So I quickly questioned. I don't know why I did this. I questioned the first guy said all right, go through the fire escape, you can get through the front and get out of here. Today's your lucky day. I'm letting you go. He had told me he was there to buy drugs.

Speaker 2: 56:45

Second guy I grab him. He's got a bulge in his pocket that I think is a gun. I pull my gun out of my emptier pockets and don't move. I pull my gun out of my emptier pockets and don't move. Sure enough, he had a six-inch gravity knife and money. I said throw that on the ground. What the fuck are you doing here? He said you're not just here to buy a little like an ounce, a quarter ounce. What are you buying? He's like oh, we're buying weight, me and my brother or my cousin, I can't remember.

Speaker 2: 57:17

I said I'm questioning this idiot, asking him if he knows any other places. That that's how stupid I was when I was. I was just always looking for the bigger collar when I was a cop. But I'm listening to the the door being kicked in and I'm watching the top of the door move and I'm like Chris, if they come through, fucking shoot because they're here to kill us. I tell the guy grab your shit and leave, run, go out the front where your buddy went. He just splits. He runs right out to the fire escape. I pick up the knife. I'm not going to say, hey, you dropped this. Pick up the knife and the money. I put it in my vest. Everything's going to be vouchered as found property. Couldn't voucher it as arrest property because then the guy couldn't get his property back.

Speaker 2: 58:11

So now the knocking stops. Two seconds later he had two or three shots go off, shit right under my feet. I'm like that's not good. So right away I'm thinking, all right, one of those guys probably got shot. This is bad. So I grabbed the dealer and I'm thinking that the girl now they already had the dealer in the hallway. I'm thinking that the girl that was taking the collar took the drugs and the scale. I didn't look through at the kitchen, I just wanted to get out.

Speaker 2: 58:53

I said we're going to use this guy as a shield If they shoot. Use him as a shield, he's our shield. So we walk him out, walk him out to the front. There are a hundred people out in the street and they're all pointing at the next corner saying he went that way. He went that way and I see a guy running and he's got a gun on him. I give chase.

Speaker 2: 59:20

They grab the, the perp. They put him in a car. He had too much distance on me so I couldn't catch him and I'm thinking if he turns. I'm going to blast him, but he never turned. He just he just he needed to get out of there. He was too fast. I'm like I'm getting. I was like two blocks away. I'm like I'm way too far from the scene. I gotta go back.

Speaker 2: 59:41

So I went back to the scene. My boss is on the scene now. He's like uh, what happened? I said we made it, we made a drug buy. He's like what was the shots? I'm like I have, I said, somebody shot in the street, right when I said that this guy is moaning. Right, I'm standing on the stoop of the building and there's a gated area. This guy is moaning and I'm like I look over. I'm like you all right, buddy, it's like my stomach hurts. I'm like you all right, buddy, he's like my stomach hurts. I'm like why? Now I know it's the guy, the first guy I let go. He puts his hand out, his stomach blowing apart. They hit him with two rounds. So I'm panicking. I'm three weeks from getting promoted to detective.

Speaker 2: 1:00:34

I'm like I'm going to be held accountable for getting this guy shot Because I was doing him a favor by letting him go. Because what? What, in essence, what they were there for was a misdemeanor. They were there to buy drugs, so I didn't catch them with any kind of weight. So you have the. You have the the the ability to cut people loose, if it's not a felon. And I cut him loose, thinking I was giving these guys get out of jail free cards and thinking, screw shit, I'm going to be held accountable If this guy dies. I'm screwed, I'm going to go to jail. So through the night they get the guy to the hospital. I'm like, all right, I'm going to keep this guy out of my book. I'm not going to put him in Mistake on my part. It's a nonviolent felony if you do it. Every cop in the world has put an improper memo book entry in their books. That's exactly what it was improper memo book entry or omitting something.

Speaker 2: 1:01:48

So my captain, the lieutenant at the desk, says IAB is coming here. There's a guy at the precinct in 34 saying you robbed him. I'm like, listen, nobody robbed anybody. He's saying that you robbed him of $1,700. I said, look, we're vouchering $1,700. I came off a guy that was going to buy drugs. I cut him loose. We didn't rob him. The voucher's marked found property. The lieutenant didn't like me. Matter, voucher's marked found property. But the lieutenant didn't like me. Matter of fact, he hated me.

Speaker 2: 1:02:22

He grabbed the girl cop because it was her collar. She didn't want to take the collar right away. I said, listen, I can't take the collar. You got a collar. I'll help you with the paperwork and I did. I helped her with all. I'll print the guy. I'll help you with the paperwork, and I did. I'll print the guy. I'll help you with the paperwork. I'll get him in and out. Just put the drugs and the scale on the table. Let the lieutenant see it. She says I didn't grab the drugs or the scale. I'm like what are you talking about? She's like I didn't grab it. I'm like that's the evidence. Now we got to go back to the apartment and grab it. We didn't have to go back to the apartment. Cops from the 3L took it and they vouched it, which was good. It proved that the guy was trying to sell to me.

Speaker 2: 1:03:09

But the guy that was the complainant that was accusing me of robbing him. He went to the 3-four precinct. Everything's close. It's divided by like blocks. So the captain that I was really good friends is still good friends with him now. He was the duty captain. He came in he said get your books up. Is there anything I need to know? I said no, we're straight up, don't worry about it, everything is cool. He goes to the three-four. He has it squashed. He has the complainant get ready to go, get come to the precinct to get his money. That's all the complainant wanted and he has it squashed with the detectives. No robbery, nothing.

Speaker 2: 1:04:00

The IAB lieutenant didn't come to the out precinct, he went straight to the 3-4. He was going to interview the complainant to basically have him twist the story to where I would be the subject of a robbery. He sees my captain he knows that Captain Lennox and I are basically best of friends and he starts screaming to him as my captain's talking to the detectives he's pointing he's like you are not allowed to do this investigation. You're too close to the cop I know you guys are best friends. You're off this investigation and he's the duty captain for the borough. So he has to investigate or respond to all major things. So he kind of like, yeah, yeah, whatever borough, I'll just blow it out of your ass. So Lieutenant Burwell was like did you ever hear me? I said you're off the case. So Lennox says to the detectives excuse me for a second, I have to do something.

Speaker 2: 1:05:07

Goes up to Burwell. He says give me your gun and shield. You're suspended. He was suspending him for insubordination. You can't talk, you're a lieutenant, that's a captain. He was suspending him for insubordination. You can't talk, you're a lieutenant, that's a captain. You can't talk to a higher authority in a suggestive manner.

Speaker 2: 1:05:32

And Burwell runs out of the precinct, gets on the phone Remember those big phones they had back then, the mobile phones, the bricks, of course, yeah, he gets into his car. He calls his commanding officer, who was a deputy inspector, who happened to be Captain Lennox's partner when they were cops and they walked a footbeat. This guy, inspector King, tells Burwell, put Captain Lennox on the phone. He's like listen, al, you're not suspending Burwell. And Lennox is like the fuck, I'm not, he's suspended. He said well, if you're going to suspend him, I'm suspending you. So Lennox says he knew that King smokes a lot of pot and King lived in Staten Island. And he says listen, you pot smoking, bastard. You want to suspend me? You can't do it over the phone, you got to do it in person. Get your ass out of bed and come to Manhattan. All right, al, take it easy, you're not suspended. He didn't want to get off. He's probably too stoned, don't worry about it.

Speaker 2: 1:06:44

But don't give the report, the suspension report, a number. This was all happening when the Marlin Commission was in full force, was all happening when the Marlin Commission was in full force. The Marlin Commission was created because of Michael Dowd from the Brooklyn precinct that was dirty. So they were investigating anybody that they thought was dirty and they were taking people in for stupidest things. And they were taking people in for the stupidest things. So right away, lennox said okay, I'm going to give him a report with no number, but I'm going to give myself one with a number. I'm going to file it just in case the Marlin Commission did call. He could prove that he gave the reporter a number.

Speaker 2: 1:07:35

So the night pretty much went hectic. Burwell came back to the precinct poking me in the chest. He's like I got you. Now You're going to go away. I'm like I did my job, I didn't do anything wrong. He's like I got you.

Speaker 2: 1:07:52

I was not a big. They were not a fan of me. Iab. They did not like how I did my job. They knew I was a a big. They were not a fan of me. Iab. They did not like how I did my job. They knew I was a little heavy handed. I was making a lot of Carlos Holt project. They didn't like that. I don't think they thought I was dirty with taking any money. I never got accused of that from them. They just didn't like that. I made all these Carlos Holt project and I was a wild man. I was too much of a that from them. They just didn't like that. I made all these colors or project and I was a wild man. I was too much of a cowboy for them. So I don't like.

Speaker 2: 1:08:25

Two weeks past I get called up to the pre the captain's offices both captains up there, lennox and Blackman and they're like Listen, we got to take you out of plain clothes and you're not going to get your shield. I'm like what? I'm like I'm a week away. I was on the list like you're not getting it and you're going back in the bag now I'm fuming. They're like and they both apologized. They were like listen, we know this is bullshit. Once, once it gets, once it, you know, cools off, we'll get you your shield and you go into the bureau and you'll work in this precinct.

Speaker 2: 1:09:03

The black man wanted me to work in the precinct detective squad. So I'm like okay. He's like what do you want to? What do you want to work? I said put me back in squad eight, said I don't want to work with anybody. What do you want to work? I said put me back in squad eight. So I don't want to work with anybody and I'm just going to let you know that everybody's going. If anybody even has a joint, they're all going. So Cap from Lennox tried to make light of these like Pete, does that include Jay walking? I'm like yeah, jaywalking, jaywalkers are going. I just have to figure out how to write the freaking ticket. So we all laughed and I don't know.

Speaker 2: 1:09:43

Like a year passed and I didn't hear anything. I kept asking them when I was going to go back and play in clothes. They didn't give me an answer. So I was down at court on a narcotics case. I was very good friends with about five ADAs that were in narcotics. Two I was really good friends with happened. They were both named Matt, matt Byben and Matt Schwartz. My case was with Matt Schwartz and the case was like for 500 vials and I was down there on an indictment on the 18080 day.

Speaker 2: 1:10:18

So he said to me listen, can you hang out after work? I need to talk to you. Meet me down in the Fellini's, we'll have dinner and I need to talk to you. It's important. He never spoke to me like that Fellini's is a restaurant that cops, correction officers and lawyers went to. I said, okay, no problem, I'll bang out, I'll take the night off.

Speaker 2: 1:10:40

So he met me at five. We had dinner and he's like okay, listen, I got bad news. I'm like what he's like? Special prosecution is looking to indict you in a matter of like three weeks on robbery. And I knew right away. I knew what case it was.

Speaker 2: 1:10:59

I'm like matt, I did my job that night. I didn't rob anybody. I said I could show you all the paper and go over the whole case with you. He said let me grab Matt, can we meet tomorrow? Tomorrow night I said, yeah, I'll grab Danny Johnson and two other cops that know the case and we'll come to my house I'll cook dinner. My wife actually my ex-wife cooked the dinner and we ate, and my ex-wife was also a police officer, a housing cop.

Speaker 2: 1:11:36

So we all sat at the table and we're looking at all the paperwork and both of the district attorneys like, listen, they can't. You know they can indict you, but once you're going to be, they really can't indict you. But we all know that they can indict us a ham sandwich. But if you beat the robbery charge, all these other bullshit charges would be thrown out. So don't worry about it, you'll be back on the street in no time.

Speaker 2: 1:12:04

So, like a year passed, I did get indicted. When I did get indicted I jumped a little. Sorry about that. So before I was being indicted I had to retire. We surrender about that. So before I was being indicted I had a retire, we surrender.

Speaker 2: 1:12:26

And I went to the pba lawyer's office. I was also a delegate for the pba. I represented cops when they got in trouble. So I knew all the bylaws, all of them, the phone rings. He waved me in and I went in with this girl cop that I was good friends with. I was actually seeing her and I know I was married, but I was seeing her too. And the phone rings. Before we start talking he mouths to me it's the DA from your case. I'm going to put it on speaker. He puts it on speaker. Swear to God.

Speaker 2: 1:13:01

The first words out of this guy's mouth was he said hello and he said listen, I'm going to let you know right now if the dirty 30 never happened, your client wouldn't even be being looked at. This would have been handled at the command level. Are you guys familiar with the 30-30? No, 30-30 were. They were from the 30th precinct.

Speaker 2: 1:13:30

My arrest happened not my arrest, but the arrest happened in the 30th precinct. These guys in the 30th precinct. They were legitimately ripping off drug dealers and assaulting other drug dealers for drug dealers that they were working for. So they got locked up and it so happened that I got in trouble. So they got locked up and it so happened that I got in trouble when these idiots got in trouble. So he says listen, if the 30-30 never happened, your guy wouldn't even be looked at. He'd be back in the street working but we won $100,000 bail. I'm like what the fuck? I can't talk because he can't know that I'm there. So my stupid ass lawyer agrees to it. He goes well, we're going to do the indictment on Friday. So you know why they did it on Friday, right?

Speaker 1: 1:14:33

You're locked up over the weekend. That's very clear.

Speaker 2: 1:14:39

This was all about getting me either hurt badly or killed and nobody else can tell me any different. So he gets off the phone with him. I'm like what the fuck are you doing? $100,000 bail? I said murder is I'm sorry if I'm cursing guys, I get emotional about this. I said murderers and rapists don't get $100,000 bail. What are you doing? It's like it is what it is. He said can you come up with it? I'm like I'm going to have to call my mother and my stepfather and my wife. We're going to have to put our houses up for collateral and I'm going to scrape together. I have to go into my pension and take out $10,000. And that's exactly what I had to do. We actually ended up putting up two houses and $10,000 bail.

Speaker 2: 1:15:30

So I show up on Friday and none other than my friend's courtroom, who I did all the cases with I'm dressed in a suit. He looks up. He's not looking at the paperwork and he looks at me. He's like what do you got for me today, pete? What kind of warrant? And I'm like your Honor, I'm not here. I couldn't even finish the sentence, the DA started screaming. He's not here to draw up a warrant. He's the case in front of you.

Speaker 2: 1:16:03

So now the judge is like oh, hold on, wait a minute, let me take a look at this. I know this officer. I've done 40 warrants with him. He's never done a bad warrant. I know him personally. He looks at it Right away. He knew it was bullshit. He says why is he doing $100,000 bail? Why weren't we informed about this? We don't have to inform you. He already did the agreement. He goes well, I want an ROR, a release on recognizance. Is he ready to sign the agreement, which I did? He said okay, no problem. He gave me a look to basically say listen, I'm going to do everything in my power to help you and I'm going to try to keep this case.

Speaker 2: 1:17:02

Problem was he was an arraignment judge. He wasn't a case judge but a trial judge. So he was trying to make a deal to do my trial because he knew I wasn't pleading out the DA. The actual DA said no, you're not doing it, we're putting it in the wheel and whoever gets it gets it. They didn't know. I knew about the wheel. The wheel is when they put a case in it, they spin this wheel and they pull out the ADA's name who takes the case? And that's how judges are assigned these cases in Manhattan, in the boroughs, the five boroughs. So I get a judge named Andreas and he does my Huntley and my MAP and my Wade hearings and of course he ruled for the state which screwed me.

Speaker 2: 1:17:59

So now I have to go to trial and about a year later it's 1995. Now I'm preparing for the trial and my PBA lawyer says I'm not doing your trial, I'm not doing this, you got to get another lawyer. I'm like I think I had like a month to prepare. Maybe I'm like what, what are you talking about? My lawyer is like we're not your lawyer anymore. So what they did was they represented the girl cop and the boy and the guy cop, my ex-partner and they threw me to the wolves Even though I was a representative. It didn't matter because they thought they were going to lose and they knew they weren't talented enough to get me off. So I ended up getting another lawyer.

Speaker 2: 1:18:54

Lawyer paid him $25,000. He looks at the case. He's like listen, with your record, you're not going to get convicted. You're I don't want to sound. You're a collar machine. Look at all the medals you have. I had over 100 medals of medals and commendations. He's like you're a hero, they're not going to over 100 medals and commendations. He's like you're a hero, they're not going to. No jury will convict you and this is a bullshit case.

Speaker 2: 1:19:28

Anyway, we take it to trial and he catches four people committing perjury. Now it's a new judge because the judge that did the hearings he didn't want to do the case because he was up to become an appellate judge, so he just gave it to his friend, judge Andreas. No, judge Atlas. No, judge Atlas. This guy hated cops, hated all law enforcement, anybody in law enforcement. He just hated people in general. And when we found out who it was, my lawyer was like this isn't good, this guy hates cops. I'm like we have no choice.

Speaker 2: 1:20:20

I'm not playing out, because if I played out, I was going to get 12 to 20 years and there was no way I was pleading out to a crime that I didn't commit. I'm like listen, I'm supposed to be a detective. I'm close to getting my shield. I'm not playing out. I'm supposed to be a detective. I'm close to getting my shield. I'm not playing out, I'm going to get my job back. He's like all right, we take you to trial.

Speaker 2: 1:20:42

He catches four people committing perjury. Each one. Each time he says Judge, I just caught this guy's line. Look at the minutes. Judge says no, picked you, picked a jury. I'm not. This is not going as a mistrial and I'm not letting him off.

Speaker 2: 1:21:04

And the judge refused to call me Officer Thrawn. He called me a defendant, which was kind of pissing me off, but it was pissing my lawyer off more so. At one point my lawyer said judge, can you do me a favor and just address my client as an officer, because he's still an officer of the law? It's like there's no way am I ever going to address him as an officer? He's the defendant and that's it. So I was just like I'm screwed.

Speaker 2: 1:21:49

So I was just like I'm screwed and the whole courtroom was packed with a few agents from AT Manhattan District Attorney's Office. They show up, they're sitting with my mother and the DA waves to them and says you know like, hey, how you doing. They're like, yeah, screw you, you're trying to screw a good friend. They go back to their office in the afternoon they got letters on their desk saying if you show up at Pete's trial again, you're going to be disbarred and fired. So they called me and told me that they couldn't go. I've tried to keep this short.

Speaker 2: 1:22:29

So I was found not guilty of the robbery. They found me guilty because of something that the judge pulled when he was charging. The jury Found me guilty of larceny because I enabled the guy to get his money back because the money was vouchered. And they found me guilty of falsifying business records my memo book. But they also charged me with all the paperwork that the girl filled out. I got charged with her paperwork so I had five counts of that, never signed anything. I didn't sign that paperwork but they decided to charge me with it.

Speaker 2: 1:23:17

I went for sentencing my captain, my lieutenant, wrote me letters. The captain in his letter wrote in good faith I can't condone this and I can't stay in silent purgatory. I've been on plenty of Officer Theron's arrest and because of his arrest and his conviction I'm retiring. So he retired because of it. The lieutenant, who was a sergeant at the time he wrote. Actually he got promoted but he was a sergeant when this happened. He wrote the judge was a copant when this happened, he wrote the judge was a cop hating judge. He hated all law enforcement. He just convicted an innocent man.

Speaker 2: 1:24:04

When they got back to the, I gave them him. They gave me the letters sealed so I didn't read them. I gave him like 30 letters to read before he sentenced me. He gave me an hour break before he did and when I went back he's like there is no way, am I going to not give you the full penalty when two bosses back a cop thief? The bosses, when they went back to their commands, was suspended 30 days without pay. So this had all. This is the deepest corruption within the department and the justice system that I had seen in a long time and unfortunately, I was part of it. The judge ended up giving me a year and a half to two to two to four years actually it was a year and a third, but it ended up being two to four years and I served almost two years in prison. Pete.

Speaker 1: 1:25:10

I you've explained everything. I think the next session we're going to do is pick it up where you went to prison and what you've done since and how you're fighting your appeals to get this straightened out in the New York system. And you know I do clemency work and when you first told me this, this about this, you know that it happened this way and I mean you, you've just like testified for the last hour and 20 minutes, so there'll be a part two to this. Uh, we'll discuss that, and I'm sure your audience has realized the productive law enforcement work that you've done, okay, and that now they know why you're the perfect person that wrote the book about my life and for the criminal justice system. You've been on both sides.

Speaker 1: 1:26:18

As we say, you've been on both sides and in other podcasts that we're going to do, I want your perspective on it because you've been an officer and when I say you were going to be a detective, you behaved like one by making all these collars and risking your life, and I want that perspective and I also want the side of people that were incarcerated to show what it's like in there. You went in as a cop, okay, so that's a big difference and things that happened in there. So, anyway, I think we'll do that with a part two, jeff, and we'll have that and a lot of us can learn from this and I'm aware of. I didn't want anybody else to write this book, and you know that we talked from the beginning. I appreciate that else to write this book and you know that we talked from the beginning. I appreciate that. And, um, you continue to praise the profession that you were in and, uh, I think it's time for justice now to be on your side.

Speaker 2: 1:27:31

Thanks for coming on today you know to me get this clemency because you know I would love to get my pension and that's something we'll talk about. But really I just want my name back and I don't want people to wonder was he dirty? Because I never took a dime in my life when I was working on the job. I made enough money with overtime I didn't need to even think about that. I loved doing my job and I paid the prices. You know my drive to become a detective was my downfall.

Speaker 1: 1:28:12

Yeah, well, we're going to discuss that in the future in the next one.